Hunting is in a spot of bother

lannerch

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There are a lot of eye witnesses saying different….rogue hound, I would put a laughing emoji if it wasn’t so tragic for the hound. Hounds are loose on roads all the time, if a pack contains rogue hounds then it shouldn’t be allowed out, the risks are too great.
Only in the antis page . If it had really happened why can I not find one reliable report of it, the original Grimsby article was withdrawn by the paper.
 

ycbm

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What you saw I think was in Lacock, Wiltshire and the police report is absolutely different to the version you are giving. The initial assault was from a sab toward a hunt supporter. The police had to 'deal' with the sab and were clearly hugely frustrated by their behaviour.
I fully accepted in my post that it was quite likely to have been in retaliation.

Do you accept that the hunt supporters wearing beautiful tweed beating seven bells out of a captive man up against a wall is an unacceptable response and will contribute to the death of all forms of hunting?

Hunt supporters and staff have to learn not to retaliate or they hand the sabs a PR coup on a big sliver platter.
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Tiddlypom

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Not in my area there were not I saw a mass of support ( my area includes malpas ) and a fabulous turn out. Countryside traditions live on. https://fb.watch/aaD7X8dOmo/
In my area I could have chosen two different packs to support for their boxing day meets.

The pack who are genuinely trying to trail hunt, or the pack who continue to blatantly fox hunt and to feck with the consequences. Not everyone who turned up on foot yesterday to support the second pack will be aware of what they're up to, but all of the mounted field would be.

One pack has moved on with the times, while the other pack resolutely hasn't.
 
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Indeed. There was some interesting footage on the news last night of hunting people in tweeds beating the shit out of a guy backed up against a wall, apparently for carrying an anti hunt placard. I accept the footage might have been cut, and sabs are not wholly innocent victims, but there is no excuse for that kind of retaliation, 3 or more on one against a cornered man. Hunting has to find a way to stop this if it is to survive.
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No it wasn't cut, it was utter chaos. Two police officers there, one of them spent much time fraternising with the scum, planning her socials and arranging child care. Typical of Wiltshire Police i have to say. One woman who was there simply holding up a placard was thrown to the floor inside the pub (the pub claim to be unbiased although they host these thugs every year ) and her glasses smashed.
No arrests made despite most of this chaos being filmed. Wiltshire Police are utterly incompetent and unwilling to take action on anything to do with animals, and their so-called policing of this utter chaos was non-existent as part usual.

The hunt and its supporters are the Avon Vale ,.Google them and their hunt masters who are no strangers to badger sett digging and other delightful acts.

It's uplifting to see many residents of the village in question stating their disgust of this tradition in the community boards.

I sincerely hope that the powers that be finally listen to the majority and ban all of this activity.

Meanwhile, the RA Hunt was filmed killing a fox for the second time in a week. And no Police action.
 
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What you saw I think was in Lacock, Wiltshire and the police report is absolutely different to the version you are giving. The initial assault was from a sab toward a hunt supporter. The police had to 'deal' with the sab and were clearly hugely frustrated by their behaviour.
Oh come off it. If you were local or indeed were there you'd know this is far from the truth. What did the woman holding a placard do to deserve being thrown onto a stone floor and getting her glasses smashed? Stop repeating propaganda as facts when it couldn't be further from true.
There were loads of ordinary people there simply wanting to show their disgust and the thugs couldn't handle it, particularly as the number of riders was rather embarrassing and apart from the thugs there was really no support shown for them.
In Pewsey the hunt reported much community support when about 11 people turned up for them. 🤣
 

CrunchieBoi

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There was maybe 5 bloodhounds outside the Black Horse in Skipton High Street yesterday morning. Visitors and shoppers were keen enough to chat to the perceived 'countryfolk' with hounds, but not sure it could be termed support for hunting in any way.
Our local football team managed to win a major cup final in 2014. They took 15k fans to the game on the day but generally muster less than a third of that number for their league games.
Indeed their first league game that season was played to less than 3250 fans (some of whom were fans of the opposition team).

I always find it pretty bizarre when boxing day is held up as an indicator of support for hunts when most of the "support" don't bother their backsides about hunting in normal circumstances.
 

Sandstone1

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Hunting people just need to get over the fact that its done. Firstly is illegal, has been for years, secondly its barbaric. Pest control? Yes sure you need a field of riders to damage land and upset livestock not to mention killing pets to do pest control. This is 2021. Its time it stopped. People can argue all they like but we know illegal hunting goes on pretty much everytime a lot of hunts go out. Hunting alongside and sometimes on busy roads? Killing by accident? If I had a pack of out of control dogs rampaging about the countryside I would be arrested. If I had a dog loose on the road that caused a accident I would be in trouble. Its always puzzled me that people who profess to love their own dogs and horses etc can happily go hunting to watch a terrified animal run for its life.
 
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Killing by accident?
Pest control ?
No living being deserves to die like this !
(Warning shows fox being torn apart )
https://fb.watch/aaGD5flmlh/

About time this scum was dealt with by the law. Sadly certainly in Wiltshire we have a politicised police force that will take zero action on animal welfare and even less on illegal hunting.

The words 'wouldn't spit' and 'on fire' come to mind.
 

Sandstone1

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How can people who have dogs, horses and other animals enjoy killing for fun?
Thats what it is after all. You groom and plait up your horses, clean your tack and dress up smart to go out and terrify a animal, you get your fun riding across country and often cause upset to livestock.
Damage land and cause chaos on roads. Stop traffic and delay people going about their legal business. Pets have been killed and even trains delayed because of hounds on the railways.
Hounds trespassed in churchyards. Foxes hunted and killed by "accident" so very often. Just so you can get your fun. Stop and think for a second, how would you feel if it was your dog being chased across country by a pack of hounds to be caught and torn to bits while still alive?
Would that be cruel? Think most people would thinks so. Why is ok to do it to a fox? Its pest control... Its tradition... Its the countryside.. Townies dont understand..... Sorry but I have lived in the countryside all my life, owned horses and ridden for most off it. Even been hunting pre ban and decided its not for me. Owned other livestock too. How would you convince me hunting is ok??
 

Koweyka

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Killing by accident?
Pest control ?
No living being deserves to die like this !
(Warning shows fox being torn apart )
https://fb.watch/aaGD5flmlh/

About time this scum was dealt with by the law. Sadly certainly in Wiltshire we have a politicised police force that will take zero action on animal welfare and even less on illegal hunting.

The words 'wouldn't spit' and 'on fire' come to mind.
It’s just disgusting and the claim it’s a quick kill is a really bad sick excuse perpetrated by those who want to feel better about what they do. Why isn't that pack confined to kennels, two foxes in two meets shows utter reckless incompetence at best though more likely it’s deliberate hunting.
 

teapot

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In my area I could have chosen two different packs to support for their boxing day meets.

The pack who are genuinely trying to trail hunt, or the pack who continue to blatantly fox hunt and to feck with the consequences. Not everyone who turned up on foot yesterday to support the second pack will be aware of what they're up to, but all of the mounted field would be.

One pack has moved on with the times, while the other pack resolutely hasn't.
My local pack is making an active effort to be seen to be doing the right thing - no mention of the word 'hunt' now (bar the name on the website), promoting all the good community type stuff, and even their photographer has ditched the password protected photos unlike last year's.
 

palo1

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Oh come off it. If you were local or indeed were there you'd know this is far from the truth. What did the woman holding a placard do to deserve being thrown onto a stone floor and getting her glasses smashed? Stop repeating propaganda as facts when it couldn't be further from true.
There were loads of ordinary people there simply wanting to show their disgust and the thugs couldn't handle it, particularly as the number of riders was rather embarrassing and apart from the thugs there was really no support shown for them.
In Pewsey the hunt reported much community support when about 11 people turned up for them. 🤣

Hmm, Police had to confront an angry protestor for sure and other accounts identify that protestors initiated the brawl.

''Hunt saboteurs sparked a mass brawl with hunting supporters today as a traditional festive meet turned into a terrifying fight.

One of the activists punched one of the countrymen in the face as he tried to guide them away from the horses and hounds at the Avon Vale Hunt's Boxing Day ride.

The pro-hunter defended himself as others tried to round on him, with one demonstrator trying to choke him from behind during the vicious attack in Lacock, near Chippenham, in Wiltshire.''

The Tedworth had a great turnout with hounds kept behind barriers so no idea what your statement is about. Most hunts seem to have had a very positive reception and some of the national press is taking that up and reporting on it. There were thousands in Ledbury and other places too though the Welsh hunts met with no spectators because of Covid regs. Everyone I have spoken to across a number of hunts say there were very, very few antis protesting and happy faces and support on show (other than in Lacock where things were ugly thanks to protestors refusing to allow safe passage for the hunt).

As the meeting in Lacock was entirely legal and planned for anyone disrupting that physically may be charged. The police were certainly frustrated with the attitudes and actions of protestors.
 

palo1

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Another report of unnecessary anti/sab violence in the South East where a sab has now been charged for assault on a 15 year old boy (knocking him to the ground and kicking him as well as threatening a much younger child). Those people were not connected to hunting but sabs possibly thought they were?
 

Koweyka

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Another report of unnecessary anti/sab violence in the South East where a sab has now been charged for assault on a 15 year old boy (knocking him to the ground and kicking him as well as threatening a much younger child). Those people were not connected to hunting but sabs possibly thought they were?
On Christmas Eve a hunt supporter spat in my face and then coughed on the other monitors, she thought it was hysterically funny, another monitor was kicked in the privates. The police are trying to identify the woman who spat on me. She was seen chatting to the huntsman but they claim not to know her. Another report of unnecessary pro hunt/wildlife killing thuggery, pro hunt are not paragons of virtue.
 

Fred66

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On Christmas Eve a hunt supporter spat in my face and then coughed on the other monitors, she thought it was hysterically funny, another monitor was kicked in the privates. The police are trying to identify the woman who spat on me. She was seen chatting to the huntsman but they claim not to know her. Another report of unnecessary pro hunt/wildlife killing thuggery, pro hunt are not paragons of virtue.
If this happened then this is disgusting behaviour, would you equally condemn the sabs who ganged up and assaulted one of the field who left early leaving him needing surgery to reconstruct his jaw ?
 

Sandstone1

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On Christmas Eve a hunt supporter spat in my face and then coughed on the other monitors, she thought it was hysterically funny, another monitor was kicked in the privates. The police are trying to identify the woman who spat on me. She was seen chatting to the huntsman but they claim not to know her. Another report of unnecessary pro hunt/wildlife killing thuggery, pro hunt are not paragons of virtue.
I hope they find the person that spat on you. Disgusting at any time but in Covid times its a offence.
 

Koweyka

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If this happened then this is disgusting behaviour, would you equally condemn the sabs who ganged up and assaulted one of the field who left early leaving him needing surgery to reconstruct his jaw ?
No if’s about it, it happened. She was completely unhinged.
I would condemn all violence, there is no need for it on any side.
 

Sandstone1

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I cannot believe how willingly blind some people are about this and the excuses made. Honestly, at this point, I don't even feel bad if it's totally banned altogether and isn't a thing anymore.

I used to have no issue with it, but enough has gone on that I can't believe it's still going on, quite frankly.
It must be banned completely and it will be... It cant go on.
 

palo1

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I cannot believe how willingly blind some people are about this and the excuses made. Honestly, at this point, I don't even feel bad if it's totally banned altogether and isn't a thing anymore.

I used to have no issue with it, but enough has gone on that I can't believe it's still going on, quite frankly.
I get the frustration with the violence and abuse from both sides I really do but anyone who says that this 'conflict' is about animal welfare is frankly deluded. The vast majority of even Hunting Act offences are not related to trail hunting but are related to poaching etc. Those statistics are available from the Ministry of Justice and are clear for anyone to view. (I have posted them previously). That means absolutely without doubt that animal welfare issues which are pressing, serious and prosecutable/actionable are entirely other to anything related to hunting. Why on earth anyone would think otherwise is literally beyond me. It is not the fault of trail hunts that the law is appalling and doesn't work for anyone.

It is standard practice for sabs and antis to spread misinformation, provide 'edited' evidence and speculation as well as complain about the police, about police bias, about lack of will to address hunting issues but no one ever accepts that there are so much more serious and important things for tax payers money to be spent on, related to animal welfare, wildlife and a whole range of other things including puppy farming, environmental pollution etc etc. Vigilantism and attempts to prevent trail hunt meets in town centres on Boxing Day are utterly anti-social and do not represent any kind of liberal, democratic process. The fact that people from all walks of life including vets, politicians, environmentalists (even those pesky rewilders!), artists, scientists, teachers, all political parties and all manner of other social groupings are seen to support hunting should tell anti-hunters something that they have been deaf to for as long as the anti-hunt movement has existed. Antis need to re-consider the reason people support hunting. (and not just trot out the usual 'psychopathic, sadistic, bloodthirsty inbred perverts line...it's old hat!!) The culture wars in the countryside are NOT about animal welfare. Doxxing and harrassing the hosts for trail hunt meets are despicable as are the lies and misinformation spread by some antis. I support the right of anyone to protest but the anti-hunt/sab lobby are well beyond what is acceptable in a democratic country. God forbid that these same extremists ever take on a more mainstream issue...
 

Fred66

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I feel bad for those who do it honestly and legally, but how else can this other poor behavior be stopped? It's ridiculous the things some get away with.
I condemn violence from either side, but there is a lot of provocation from hunt sabs, verbally, physically and frequently on private property directed at children. Some of the placards yesterday had obscene language written on them that had no place in any place, never mind in public.
No one should be able to intimidate others in this way. Vigilantism is not ok, lobby your mp, protest peacefully but do not bring violence, obscene language etc on to someone else’s property. There is no excuse
 
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Sandstone1

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I get the frustration with the violence and abuse from both sides I really do but anyone who says that this 'conflict' is about animal welfare is frankly deluded. The vast majority of even Hunting Act offences are not related to trail hunting but are related to poaching etc. Those statistics are available from the Ministry of Justice and are clear for anyone to view. (I have posted them previously). That means absolutely without doubt that animal welfare issues which are pressing, serious and prosecutable/actionable are entirely other to anything related to hunting. Why on earth anyone would think otherwise is literally beyond me. It is not the fault of trail hunts that the law is appalling and doesn't work for anyone.

It is standard practice for sabs and antis to spread misinformation, provide 'edited' evidence and speculation as well as complain about the police, about police bias, about lack of will to address hunting issues but no one ever accepts that there are so much more serious and important things for tax payers money to be spent on, related to animal welfare, wildlife and a whole range of other things including puppy farming, environmental pollution etc etc. Vigilantism and attempts to prevent trail hunt meets in town centres on Boxing Day are utterly anti-social and do not represent any kind of liberal, democratic process. The fact that people from all walks of life including vets, politicians, environmentalists (even those pesky rewilders!), artists, scientists, teachers, all political parties and all manner of other social groupings are seen to support hunting should tell anti-hunters something that they have been deaf to for as long as the anti-hunt movement has existed. Antis need to re-consider the reason people support hunting. (and not just trot out the usual 'psychopathic, sadistic, bloodthirsty inbred perverts line...it's old hat!!) The culture wars in the countryside are NOT about animal welfare. Doxxing and harrassing the hosts for trail hunt meets are despicable as are the lies and misinformation spread by some antis. I support the right of anyone to protest but the anti-hunt/sab lobby are well beyond what is acceptable in a democratic country. God forbid that these same extremists ever take on a more mainstream issue...
You are so blind... Ok one more time. If trail hunting why oh why do they frequently end up along side or on main roads??? If trail hunting why are the so often hunting foxes??? why do they end up on land they have been asked not to go on??? Why do they upset livestock and other horses??? why have they killed pets???? why do they end up on railway lines???? Can you please answer this without quoting reports at me? If legal trail hunting why are they not laying and following a trail? I can tell you why. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT TRAIL HUNTING. If you think they are you must be incredibly lucky that your hunt does it legally or you have not actually been hunting recently or you are deluded. I t has to be one of them.
 
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CanteringCarrot

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I get the frustration with the violence and abuse from both sides I really do but anyone who says that this 'conflict' is about animal welfare is frankly deluded. The vast majority of even Hunting Act offences are not related to trail hunting but are related to poaching etc. Those statistics are available from the Ministry of Justice and are clear for anyone to view. (I have posted them previously). That means absolutely without doubt that animal welfare issues which are pressing, serious and prosecutable/actionable are entirely other to anything related to hunting. Why on earth anyone would think otherwise is literally beyond me. It is not the fault of trail hunts that the law is appalling and doesn't work for anyone.

It is standard practice for sabs and antis to spread misinformation, provide 'edited' evidence and speculation as well as complain about the police, about police bias, about lack of will to address hunting issues but no one ever accepts that there are so much more serious and important things for tax payers money to be spent on, related to animal welfare, wildlife and a whole range of other things including puppy farming, environmental pollution etc etc. Vigilantism and attempts to prevent trail hunt meets in town centres on Boxing Day are utterly anti-social and do not represent any kind of liberal, democratic process. The fact that people from all walks of life including vets, politicians, environmentalists (even those pesky rewilders!), artists, scientists, teachers, all political parties and all manner of other social groupings are seen to support hunting should tell anti-hunters something that they have been deaf to for as long as the anti-hunt movement has existed. Antis need to re-consider the reason people support hunting. (and not just trot out the usual 'psychopathic, sadistic, bloodthirsty inbred perverts line...it's old hat!!) The culture wars in the countryside are NOT about animal welfare. Doxxing and harrassing the hosts for trail hunt meets are despicable as are the lies and misinformation spread by some antis. I support the right of anyone to protest but the anti-hunt/sab lobby are well beyond what is acceptable in a democratic country. God forbid that these same extremists ever take on a more mainstream issue...
Your opinion doesn't have to be the same as mine, but appreciate your explanation nonetheless.



Also, just for clarify because this apparently wasn't clear (because I didn't say this before), I don't support many of the actions taken by Sabs and don't deny that they provoke.
 

Fred66

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It must be banned completely and it will be... It cant go on.
Actually trespass and this style of aggressive protest is what needs to be banned. It is not acceptable to intimidate others in this way. If a crime is committed then the police should deal with it not a group of vigilantes.
 

CanteringCarrot

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I condemn violence from either side, but there is a lot of provocation from hunt sabs, verbally, physically and frequently on private property directed at children. Some of the placards yesterday had obscene language written on them that had no place in any place, never mind in public.
No one should be able to intimidate others in this way. Vigilantism is not ok, lobby your mp, protest peacefully but do not bring violence, obsecene language etc on to someone else’s property. There is no excuse
Not arguing with that.


Sad that it got to this point though, or that people felt the need to take it into their own hands. Perhaps if matters were dealt with or prevented, it might help in the future. Aka certain hunts don't do stupid things, to put it plainly. I'm not saying this justifies the Sabs and their actions though.
 

Sandstone1

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Actually trespass and this style of aggressive protest is what needs to be banned. It is not acceptable to intimidate others in this way. If a crime is committed then the police should deal with it not a group of vigilantes.
I think you will find that fox hunting is already banned and the hunts themselves often trespass.
 

palo1

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You are so blind...
@Sandstone, I am not blind. When I was a university student I would have identified quite strongly as an anti and had friends who were active sabs. I never took the HSA coin because I didn't want to get involved in any physical conflict but I lived in a house with 2 very active (probably still now!) sabs (also, more rarely for that era, they were ethical vegans too) who were very happy to be paid £20 a day for sabbing and had true conviction about the rightness and necessity of their action. I saw their horror, the emotional distress they experienced and I felt then (pre-ban) that there was no need at all for hunting. Post university and several other events, as a member of a rural community I saw a different set of ideas which I was quite happy to examine. I followed the hunt as a matter of 'neutral' interest - not having much money for one thing and being interested in horses! I have truly seen both sides of the issue. I have chosen to take the position I have after a lifetime's involvement and interest in wildlife, conservation and hunting issues which I have explored as fully as I can from both UK positions as well as a range of other cultural and moral/philosophical points of view. I am not stupid, blind or cruel. I am not ignorant about what 'message' the anti-hunt lobby want to spread but I fundamentally disagree with that lobby for a number of reasons.

I think it is important to respect how other people feel and to try to understand their viewpoint. I have done my best to see this issue from several sets of shoes. I am not sure that many antis have.
 
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