Hunting vs. Fishing

[Oaksflight]

So what's worse? Hunting a fox, chasing it i.e. the way that it'd die naturally and is therefore built for it, and killing it quickly. Or fishing, tempting fish with food as they know no better than to go for the food, and then find themselves with a hook in their mouths.

Where's the ban for fishing?

Would just like to see what everyone thinks about this after an arguement with my friend and family at the dinner table over the hunting ban.

I'm niether for or against hunting, never been, but would like to try it legally.

 

[Enigma]

Sadly the Labour Government enjoy fishing too much for it to be banned at the moment. Once shooting is removed then it will only be time. With the concentrated efforts of hunt saboteurs and publicity, soon even the Government will be ashamed they ever went fishing.

 

[wurzel]

"With the concentrated efforts of hunt saboteurs"

good to see you are keeping LACS out of it !!

Stick to the violence eh ?

What will you move on to after fishing?

 

[severnmiles]

After fishing TF they will have to think about going and getting jobs, or actually a life. Need some tips on hobbies, well theres fishing, hunting, shooting, oh bugger you banned all of those didn't you?!

 

[Chicagoland]

I can think of other hobbies they might have..... Sorry, sick mind. I can't imagine them learning to actually work for a living.....

Regardless, fishing fine but must cut off head/kill fish BEFORE skinning or whatever. Sorry, but saw a guy do this the wrong way and that constitues torture to me. Kill all you want but don't torture them!

Remember to reproduce! Outbreed your socialist/totalitarian brethren!!

 

[ROSSTHEJOCK]

What will you move on to after fishing?

They will move onto protesting against the use of pesticides, like fly spray.

Antis = Nutjob frootloopytunes.

 

[Rachael_jack]

I think it is ridiculous!!! Soon there will be no traditional sports left! All rubbish football - that causes fights, yobish behaviour etc (not saying all football suporters are like it) But sports like this cause more havioc than fishing and shooting!

 

[severnmiles]

Exactly, I want my kids to spend their weekends fishing, shooting and hunting. Not drinking, taking drugs and generally causing havoc.

 

[monkey2005]

I would also like my kids to grow up kind, have respect and be polite. I wont encourage them to kill animals though.

 

[metalmare]

I have spent more than half my life fishing and I have greater respect and knowledge of animals and countryside than most 18 year old girls by far. There is as yet no proof that fish feel pain, although as a fishkeeper I will acknowledge that they get stressed. So do I :smile:

 

[chestnut cob]

Fish are living, breathing beings. How can you come out with a comment like "there is as yet no proof that fish feel pain"?? That's like me shoving a hook down your throat "because it's not proven" you might feel pain!!! Rubbish!!

I'm not getting into the debate about fishing and hunting but I had to say something about your comment MM! Would it hurt your horse if you stabbed it with something sharp - or just because he can't talk, does that mean you can't PROVE it hurts him???!!!!

 

[metalmare]

The brain of a fish is not, scientists have claimed, large enough to have room for pain receptors. Also there is the fact that a hooked fish struggles so much when hooked - if someone put a hook in me I would come very quietly, as does a bull when it has a ring through it's nose. I have caught thousands of fish in my life and watched thousands of fish swim off none the worse for it.

I honestly believe that fishing keeps my grandad alive as it gives him some motivation and something to work towards.

I think you're being a bit naive, I am not a fish and nor is my horse. How many people kill insects or rodents without even thinking twice about it? I even carry bonjella in my tackle box so that any fishes with sores from leaches etc can have some put on! And that is not uncommon amongst fishermen.

 

[monkey2005]

Maay I ask you to read this article.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2983045.stm

Dr Sneddon said: "Anomalous behaviours were exhibited by trout subjected to bee venom and acetic acid.

 

[metalmare]

Do the link again, it's not working, and I'll read it.

 

[chestnut cob]

Yes but at no point has anyone suggested to me that rodents don't feel pain.

Scientists make a lot of claims, you shouldn't believe them all. Statistics can also be "interpreted" in many different ways depending on the angle the author is looking at something from. I am a scientist, just finishing my PhD, and my results would have been very different had I not "interpreted" them in the way I did. Unless something can be corroborated by many other pieces of work you should take things with a pinch of salt. It's not difficult to write a scientific paper to back up what you *want* to say. I hate to say it but the reason articles on fox hunting, for example, seem so convincing in mags like H&H is because they don't always give a balanced view. If you really want a balanced view of something and don't just take you arguements from reading someone else's reviews, then you need to go and read all of the *research* yourself. That's the only way to make up your own mind.

 

[monkey2005]

Dont get me wrong, I have no real views on fishing but it does have some interesting points.

The link is old now. If you search for "BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Fish do feel pain, scientists say" in google, itll find it.

 

[metalmare]

Okay then, if you want to put it like that, I would like to think that they don't feel pain. Out of the thousands of fish I have caught there has been the occasional casualty admittedly but the very vast majority I have watched with my own eyes swim off apparently fairly unshaken. It has even been know for a fish to be caught literally five minutes after it had just been released because it was ready to get back down to the serious business of eating again!

There are fishermen who mistreat the fish - I have seen it - but the vast majority feel nothing but respect and admiration for the fish and would never knowingly hurt them, myself and my grandad included.

And I dread to think what would happen to him if a ban was passed. I am considerably more interested in my grandad's health than that of a fish.

 

[monkey2005]

"And I dread to think what would happen to him if a ban was passed"

I doubt very much that'll happen.

 

[chestnut cob]

I don't want them to ban it - that's why I said I wasn't getting into the debate! I just wanted to talk about the point about not feeling pain! I actually support all the country pursuits and I'm going hunting on wed!! Playing Devil's Advocate really!

 

[monkey2005]

So you agree a fox, hare and stag would feel pain?

 

[chestnut cob]

I never claimed they didn't, and as we are hunting legally now it shouldn't be a major issue....

 

[monkey2005]

Im not saying you didnt either. Alot of pros have stated that they dont think foxes, hare and deer do feel pain during hunting. Not sure why, they must be townies!!!!

 

[metalmare]

Hmmm, they feel pain inevitably, but the pain may be very brief.

What is the most common way for foxes to die aside from hunting? I can't imagine it's anymore pleasant than being dealt a fatal blow by a foxhound. Death is not pleasant, especially for animals, and especially especially for wild ones!

 

[chestnut cob]

I think it's very difficult because it's such a touchy subject. In all honesty I don't think they feel pain during the chase. Or at least I would like to think they don't. However, I know how I used to feel at school when we were made to do XC running and that did hurt after a while....

I have to be honest and say that I'm really a bit of a fence-sitter. I do have a conscience (sp??) and when I really think about the issues involved it does make me think, but at the same time I will admit that I do enjoy hunting. I only go out occasionally as it's too expensive and I have other things I would rather do with my horse. I enjoy being able to ride over fantastic country side, I enjoy the adrenalin rush of the galloping and jumping, but at the same time I can't decide where I really stand on the ethics. I suppose I'm pro if forced to chose as I can't honestly see that other methods used are any less cruel.

*scuttles back to warm, cuddly Soapbox to wait to be ripped to shreds*

 

[metalmare]

I think twice about it sometimes but it is something I have considered long and hard, which (generalisation here) I think a lot of anti's haven't. I was brought up in a town so I am not automatically programmed into country thinking. But, like CC, I can't see any kinder way for the fox to die.

I'm going to bed soon so I'm not going to get into any major debate here.

 

[severnmiles]

Chestnut cob, My horse would also feel cold in a lake or river, because fish are cold blooded they don't feel this.

 

[Clodagh]

Yes they would, but the pain of being killed by hounds must be acute but fleeting. If fish feel pain then they are being tortured.

How about if we raise fox cubs in a nice little pen and then hook them and drag them around for an hour. Then release tham and do it all again the next day. Now, that would be cruel.

 

[duffgirl]

fishing will not be banned as it brings too much direct revenue into the country.
More money for bored MP's to get over sized paycheques to make police officers waste resources in policing a ban that has no effect whatsoever!

hunting and shooting also provides revenue for the country but this is not as clearly direct as fishing.

 

[monkey2005]

"fishing will not be banned as it brings too much direct revenue into the country."


Im sure the country would collapse without the rod license fee!!

 

[Eagle_day]

"Im not saying you didnt either. Alot of pros have stated that they dont think foxes, hare and deer do feel pain during hunting. Not sure why, they must be townies!!!! "

... or Chief Executives of the RSPCA? Remember it was Jackie Ballard who said that shot and wounded foxes do not suffer.