Hurrah for david Holmes chief executive of the FEI

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Rouletterose

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David Holmes Chief executive of the FEI to hold immediate investigation into Patrick Kittel and THE.....you tube video, at last they are looking into this barbaric practice due to public pressure and complaints.

Interesting to note that Patrick Kittel is trained by Anky's husband Seff.
 
Good. Let's hope they have the backbone to actually address the issue. The link with Anky is an interesting one. Can someone who knows about these things tell me if Anky was the pioneer (if that doesn't make it sound glamorous) of Rollkur or whether it has been around for years and it was only her that brought it to the public eye? I've watched a couple of the vids on You Tube and some of the footage is very disturbing. I think it takes the practice of 'working deep' for a few minutes to a completely new and unnacceptable level
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Good. Let's hope they have the backbone to actually address the issue. The link with Anky is an interesting one. Can someone who knows about these things tell me if Anky was the pioneer (if that doesn't make it sound glamorous) of Rollkur or whether it has been around for years and it was only her that brought it to the public eye? I've watched a couple of the vids on You Tube and some of the footage is very disturbing. I think it takes the practice of 'working deep' for a few minutes to a completely new and unnacceptable level
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To be honest I'm not sure, but lets just say that I think when she started to be trained by her husband, thats when her riding changed.
 
There is such a lack of understanding about the history of this debate, understandably. There are certain people who have taken the 'deep and round' idea to new and potentially acute degrees. Some would argue that other riders since Nicole Uphoff took this idea to new levels, but the whole rollkur debate has been exacerbated since being brought into the public domain since Anky and Sjef's training led it there in their extreme practice.

There are many positive aspects this couple have brought to the sport, let's not forget that. They have always argued that it is a dangerous tool in the wrong hands. It is a nevertheless a disturbing addition to the sport and the FEI have have fobbed off the arguments so far. It may be that Pandora's box has been opened........but it's the YouTube publicity that has done it, not courage on the part of the FEI.
 
Bear in mind there has already been an investigation surrounding this practice a couple of years ago which basically did b*gger all dispite some serious heavyweights speaking out against it.

However Im very pleased to see it up on the agenda again and hopefully the more of these bits of evidence we can bring to light the better for the long term outcome....that is to positively decry rollkur as the cruel practice I beleive it is.
 
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Bear in mind there has already been an investigation surrounding this practice a couple of years ago which basically did b*gger all dispite some serious heavyweights speaking out against it.


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Who were the heavyweights you are referring to? I'd be really grateful for any references you have to their work as they don't seem to be mentioned in the FEI press releases at the time.
 
The problem is that 'rollkur' is a new term. As far as I understand it is applies to the extreme version of 'deep' practised by Anky and Sjef. Nicole certainly pioneered a very 'deep and round' method with Rembrandt, specifically to cope with his inherent spookiness. But no way was it the same as the Anky and Sjef method.
There are so many variables. Isabell Werth is a prime example, but you can't possibly compare her method with Anky and Sjefs'.
I think you're right Kerilli to say that Nicole was a pioneer of deep and round, but it depends on what we understand by rollkur to apply that term.
If anyone's more confused than ever....can only apologise but I think it's important to differentiate between the methods!
 
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Bear in mind there has already been an investigation surrounding this practice a couple of years ago which basically did b*gger all dispite some serious heavyweights speaking out against it.

However Im very pleased to see it up on the agenda again and hopefully the more of these bits of evidence we can bring to light the better for the long term outcome....that is to positively decry rollkur as the cruel practice I beleive it is.

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I know spaniel
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but I am a persistent optimist and just maybe.....this time.... something will actually be done to stop this practice. Thanks to Epona tv and the public again who have made enough noise against this, and all the forums who have spread word around..at least david Holmes has responded. We can only all hope that they do actually fully investigate, and ban it.
 
Not wishing to get too technical but it started way back in the 19th Century with Francois Baucher, but I still think this particular method is an Anky and Sjef development. Actually Sjef maintains his method is different!
There was a big hoo-ha in 1995 when the German St Georg magazine published a story called 'Dressur Pervers' about....guess who! Lot of litigation and the fact that it was just before the European Champs was used to make it seem like it was the Germans trying to damn the Dutch.
Hey ho....it still goes on. But nothing happened about rollkur then and I'm not placing a big bet that anything will happen now, sadly.
 
Hmmmm and i think Monsieur Baucher, who methods were extreme at one point, modified his approach after a very bad fall from a horse who objected violently to them.
As for David Holmes, i agree with roulette rose, nothing would have been done if it wasnt for you tube.
and i would also suggest it might not be the rollkur on its own which makes the horses tongue blue on that video but an overtight curb chain with a high ported bit and plenty use of the curb rein to get the rollkur.
 
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The problem is that 'rollkur' is a new term. As far as I understand it is applies to the extreme version of 'deep' practised by Anky and Sjef. Nicole certainly pioneered a very 'deep and round' method with Rembrandt, specifically to cope with his inherent spookiness. But no way was it the same as the Anky and Sjef method.
There are so many variables. Isabell Werth is a prime example, but you can't possibly compare her method with Anky and Sjefs'.
I think you're right Kerilli to say that Nicole was a pioneer of deep and round, but it depends on what we understand by rollkur to apply that term.
If anyone's more confused than ever....can only apologise but I think it's important to differentiate between the methods!

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Yes, agree completely.

By the way the Dressur Pervers article appeared much later than 1995... I think it could have been 2005 or 2006? I do have it at home, if anybody's interested in a photocopy.
 
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