Hybrid Horsemanship....

I love the " You need Parelli Natural Horsemanship or you are going straight to hell, this is Abuse" comment

Lets get Linda to hit it in the face with a clip.....wonder how much Safety zone she would need;-)))
 
I think he's brilliant. I came across his vids on youtube while procrastinating, watching horsie videos. I'm a fairly blank canvas when it comes to horses - caring for them, training...I'm just learning to ride, but his clips made me want to actually learn about horses, not just learn to ride and kiss them on the nose :-)
 
I LOVE the video of him on the rearer. Unbelievable!

However, can someone explain the 'Tap,' to me? I just don't understand how its done?! (Not that I'll be doing it, im just curious!)
 
Try this one Dismounting from the point of no Return!

http://www.youtube.com/user/endospink#p/u/0/gsLt-j0N5tw

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Fleabite said:
However, can someone explain the 'Tap,' to me? I just don't understand how its done?! (Not that I'll be doing it, im just curious!)
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He does give a general explanation on the site but for the "how to" you need to pay him for the download/drive. He asks that people don't pass on the information, which is fair enough I guess, as that's what he's selling. It's not really new or unusual though, there have been people using similar practices for ages.
 
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I love the way he vaults on, wish I could do that!

As for the dismount from the point of no return, brilliantly done by him but I wouldn't have a hope in hell of being that co-ordinated!!! Best stay off anything that rears that badly! :)
 
This is how you should deal with problem horses. In a calm non confrontational mannor. :D I've seen this guy before. He is good. He never looses his temper with them or gets agressive and he is dealing with dangourous horses.

I love his explanation on how to get off a rearer at the point of no return. I've done that sooooo many times :p
What I realy like about this guy is he tells people not to try his technic themselfes and to seek profetinal help or they or even there horses will get hurt. He's not trying to market it in anyway. He even says on some of the vids they are for entertainment only. (or maybe just so we can all drool over him :p;):D:D)
 
i love this guy, horse sence and a bit more, no frills! I did the Tap on a little arab we had to just generaly chill him out and see if i could do it, I have taught horses to lie down before but the Tap is a bit different , i only did it on this horse as he was a 'maliable' sort of chap and i figured he would not be too dificult.... it wasn't and he really did chill out after we had done it. just calmed him and made him compleatly happy to have us around...
as you can see from the pic he was not stressed at all!

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Fairynuff said:
Does anyone know who this guy is? Ive been watching some of his other vids and am quite fascinated by him.He 's definately effective!
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Yep - Paul is an Australian, started off as an apprentice jockey in Randwick (Sydney) but fell in love with starting youngsters. He relocated to Japan - and married a Japanese girl so has stayed there (although his decision may have been helped by the fact that they NEED him SO much there!:rolleyes:)

He specialises in problem TB's - and there are a LOT of them in Japan as there is a real shortage of capable people. And he is a life-saver (if they can't/won't race in Japan, they get eaten - no sentiment!)

The Tap just puts a horse off balance - it induces, I suppose, a feeling of submission/helplessness - and he then becomes not just 'dominant' - but also a friend. Useful tool for a certain type of horse - particularly as it's a 'quick fix' (Japanese owners DON'T have the patience to wait months for slow and steady re-educating!!)

I've used it on the odd bolshy colt - once was always enough!:D
 
Is it worth getting his explaination of the tap ie paying for it? I have watched his videos for a couple of years and think in certain cases it could be very useful but would like to learn to do it properly!
 
JanetGeorge said:
The Tap just puts a horse off balance - it induces, I suppose, a feeling of submission/helplessness - and he then becomes not just 'dominant' - but also a friend.
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Is that the current theory? Paul Williamson used to talk in terms of endorphin release (hence his handle Endospink), and others have suggested vagal effects due to nerve pinching.

P.S. I still have concerns about the technique being used casually, or routinely for training purposes - though I agree it may be useful in extremis where the alternatives are worse for the horse. To my mind it's little different from injecting a (hypothetical) drug that has the same effect. If it's a true physiological effect, it may as well be the same. The only difference is that with the Tap you don't need a needle and syringe.
 
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Laying down or casting a horse, during a training session should only be done in extream cases in my view, as in the horses mind, the next thing that happens is, that he is going to die.

To be casting horses as a routine or short cut to dominate a horse is wrong.

Obviously, there is a place for this ancient technique, but it is a last resort.
 
I can certianly see why the chap in question does it in his work situation, i dont do it on a regular basis, but i saw it as a training aid that might come in handy in the future, which is why i did it on the occasion before with the arab, i get the impression from Endo'spink and from doing it myself , that horses find it calming and it seems to make them think more rather than just react. I think it would be easy to confuse it with a natural horseanship tecnique and it differs ver much from that . it would also be very easy to do it wrong, as the warnings on his videos state.
 
I note that the youtube video I saw regarding this technique was entitled Rogue Busters, which gives the impression that the horse involved was a rogue in as much it was proving difficult to handle and showing aggression.

I am aware that casting a horse to the ground is an old technique used on horses deemed to be dangerous.

Also, I have seen horses trained to lie down as a trick.

To my mind these are two diverse situations.

If you are taking a dangerous horse and in order to control it you decide that it needs to be cast, this is an extream form of control. Whether it is cast by ropes or pulling it over by the bridle can be argued over, but the upshot is that it ends up on the ground.

For a horse with this mindset, it doesn't know that this is part of a training technique, the horse really believes that it is going to die. I note, also that the handler then puts his hands over the vulnerable parts of the horse whilst it is on the ground. The throat and belly, which are torn out by wolves and the like whilst the horse is down and alive.

Horses in this situation 'give up' and all the 'fight' goes out of them, which of course is the object of the exercise. The horse certainly appears very subdued when it is allowed up.

My worry is that this technique will be seen as a short cut to producing plyable horses, particularly when used on youngsters.
 
I hear and understand all that you say with regard to the horse fearing death BUT watch the video, he's had the horse down, he's had it partly down and then he is brought a rope and leads the horse about. Then think about how the horse's "way of being" has changed and compare it to join up. That horse just adores him and would follow him anywhere. Look at the way it reacts when he strokes it's head and neck. That is not a horse that has been permanently terrified by it's handler. Endo has such a gentle but firm way with horses that he although he plays slightly on their fears they are aware that he is calm inside and there is no killer instinct in him, no aggression is shown.
 
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