I am shocked & v angry... Did you all know?????

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Vicki1986

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That if you take a horse to an auction/sale it is NOT scanned for a microchip or its freezemark checked, on selling it the auction house can issue it with a new passport?!?!?!!?


I.E you steal a horse - take it to market - flog it and bobs your uncle.

Am i the only person who didnt know this?!

So what the hell is the point in us microchipping / trying to protect our horses from theft if this is going on?????

I cant believe the sales / auctions houses are allowed to carry out this practice!

I have heard this through another forum from the owner of Big Bird who made this discovery whilst at sales searching for her beloved 5yr old grey ID mare
 
i'm just dumbfounded that something so obviously ridiculous is being allowed to happen!!!!!!

i feel so sorry for anyone with a stolen horse i realy do, with this kind of practice going on they stand no chance of return!
 
That is disgusting, I knew that places rarely scanned for a microchip and then it depended if they had the right scanner, but I had no idea re: freezemark. What is the point (mine is chipped and freezemarked) but am surprised passports can be issued without this information being checked. Also is it not illegal to sell/transport a horse without a passport? Thus auction houses are being pretty irresponsible selling horses which don't have a passport IMO.
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Sadly, this is old news.

It wouldn't be so bad if a passport could only be issued one day and the horse not allowed through the sales ring anywhere else, or even privately, either, for a month at least; this might give people more of a chance to find their stolen animals. I keep giving Beeston grief about it but no auction house is going to turn income away like that until DEFRA pull their finger out to do something about all the loopholes with passports but I think we'll be whistling in the air for a while yet.
 
Some sales check - I'm sure Doncaster do.

Having said that, can't see the more reputable sales as being top of the list for anyone trying to get rid of a stolen horse!

Agree it is a crazy loophole.
 
Sadly this is a well known fact. Passports are a complete fiasco. What is even more disgraceful is that horses being exported are not scanned - hence the huge number of coloured cobs that are stolen and then shipped to America.
 
I have obviously been living in either the dark ages or my own little bubble!!!

I knew things were bad but not this bad.

I think its shocking that there has been no regulations to enforce proper checking at sales.
 
If your horse is stolen and Freezemarked you report the theft to the organisation that Freezemarked your horse and they then immediately alert all the auction houses, slaughter houses, ports and police stations that the horse which is freezemarked is stolen. The Freezemark is visible so can be read by anyone.

It would appear that Microchipping services do not do this and in addition because there are 5 different systems some of which use different scanners there is a problem with reading them.

Passports where only created to enable horse owners to continue using certain pharmaceuticals and ensure that horses treated with these pharmaceuticals so not get in to the human food chain.

If you are talking about each horse being identified then they would all have to be freezemarked and also microchipped (belt and braces) and the details of owners, breeding and veterinary treatment kept on a central database.

Is that what you want?
 
I found this out to my own horror in November 2004 and it's well documented with the oldies on the forum.

I sold my beloved Bailey as a companion horse. He was permanently lame owing to a fracture in his fetlock. Strikingly handsome Dun gelding. Beautiful.

Some three weeks later I discovered by chance that he was advertised for sale on the internet as an allrounder. He was pictured hacking, schooling and jumping.

Turns out the people I sold him to took him to Beeston Sales the very next day. He was issued with a new passport by Farmkey, in a new identity. He's now called Fizz. The lady who had him, had bought him genuinely not knowing about his past. She was a dealer herself. She informed me that he was 100% sound and not on pain relief. Something I can't prove, but totally disbelieve. I'd owned him for 18 months and he was never sound in all the time I owned him unless box rested for a significant period of time. In which case he'd stay sound for a week or so light hacking.

He also has a microchip that was never scanned. This microchip holds information about his injury and how he's considered unsuitable for ridden work on the central computer.

I should point out though, that Farmkey have now stopped passporting all equines at the ringside. Horses must come to the sale with a passport in place.
 
Pat, on Wright Manley's website it has stated for some time now that Farmkey will no longer be issuing passports at the ringside.

Some abattoirs used to have a PIO on site too! It meant you could steal a horse, take it to the abattoirs, passport it, kill it and pocket the money for meat. Much less hassle than selling on!
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[ QUOTE ]

If you are talking about each horse being identified then they would all have to be freezemarked and also microchipped (belt and braces) and the details of owners, breeding and veterinary treatment kept on a central database.

Is that what you want?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it stops theft and export of stolen horses, and unscrupulous dealers selling horses as sound that are not, too right thats what I want!
 
Horse sales are now becoming increasingly aware that there are massive loop holes n the system, but they are beginning to sit up and take notice.
I would urge everybody who is concerned about these issues to contact the freeze marking and microchip companies and express their disatisfaction.
Microchipped horses are a particular problem - more so than freeze marked.

I have an email here, sent to me by Farmkey, which explains a little...

<font color="blue"> Dear *********,
I fully understand your concern with regards to the issue of passports at Beeston horse sale, however this is fully approved by DEFRA and Cheshire Trading Standards.
There is no national facility to check if a horse already has a passport, until every horse is microchipped and the details recorded by each Passport Issuing Organisation (PIO) there will be no such facility.
The local Trading Standards representative is responsible for enforcing the equine passport legislation, which states that it is illegal to obtain more than one passport for a horse.
The Trading standards representative carries a microchip scanner which he or ourselves use if required.

However if a microchip number was found in a horse, there is no facility to check this against a register for passports.
There are many different microchip companies with separate databases and many people do not keep their records up to date.

When a horse is seen at Beeston sale with a freezemark, we always checkour database to see if it has been stolen or has a passport with us, we check with the registered owner that the horse is being sold legitimately where necessary.
Farmkey also own the stolen horse register, and we check horses in thesale against those recorded as stolen on the website, regardless ofwhether they need a passport.

I hope that this information alleviates your worries, be assured that horse security is very important to us!

Regards ********* </font>

After continued lobbying by many people, the issuing of passports at Beeston, has been stopped, but there are still glaring inadequacies, and really, the only way forward is for a national database to be set up, covering both freezemarks and microchips.
 
Farmkeys information is not quirte correct as no single scanner will detect all micro-chips.

In other words unless all horse owners insist that every horse is Freezemarked and Microchipped and their records including veterinary treatment is kept on a central database then this abuse of the system will continue to occur.

If you are putting an unsound horse on loan then you must have it Freezemarked as unsound to avoid it being sold on as sound. Do not rely on microchipping as it can as I have said a hundred times before only be recognised by a specific scanner.
 
thats disgusting!!! it should be done at all sales!! i personally think horses that are vetted should be checked as well as the owner may not know them self whether the horse has previously been stolen.
 
Hi

Really? That is mental I had no idea that this would be the case. Because, surely, if like with a car if you buy a horse that is found to be stolen you don't get your money back and the horse (like the car) is returned to its rightful owner?
 
Yes, I believe that is the case - it is the unsuspecting buyer who will lose out. However... passports, microchips or freezemarks only go so far - I far prefer freezemarking, as if you report it stolen, the details do go to auction houses etc, I know of it happening at Beeston. Additionally, a loss of use brand is very offputting to a potential owner, I don't know of the legalities (I know insurance requests it in LOU claims) but would this be viable for a private owner not claiming on insurance to have done, if they were selling the horse on as companion only?
 
"""Because, surely, if like with a car if you buy a horse that is found to be stolen you don't get your money back and the horse (like the car) is returned to its rightful owner? """

i thought that if your animal; was sold at public auction, the new buyers were the legal owners and you would have to buy the horse back if you could - im sure thats the case
 
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