I am starting to get frightened now...

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pottamus

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To cut a long story short...my lad should be well underway with recovery from laminitis back in Aug last year. But even though the vet gave him the all clear some months back, diet is all monitored etc etc..he has had a few unexplained flare ups.
His latest one is sadly in a different foot to the one he originally had rotation in and the vet is a bit concerned about what is happening.
It could be that his respiratory problems (COPD) have triggered it and they are also talking about blood tests for cushings. The majority of flare ups have happened following the farrier visit to replace his heartbars.
One of my worries is that his insurance wont cover him for laminitis and technically this is a different case as it is a different foot so I am not sure how to deal with this. If he tested positive for cushings at least I would know and could find a way to fund the drugs...if not, I will have to try to prevent and home treat the flare ups...which I can do but it is tricky when he cannot be stabled for long periods and I have no perm water from which to soak hay all year.
I am worried about the outcome of all this, along with a husband who blames the farrier for most of it, thinks my horse should be put in boots instead of shoes and is questioning the finance of it all...dont get me wrong, he is totally supportive and will do everything to get my horse right again...
Sorry for the rambling...just worried about the future and I guess looking for anyone that may have gone through this and found a way out of the mire??!!!!
I thought we were on the road to recovery...
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Some horses simply never recover - and in your shoes I'd be having a long hard think about his future.

Sorry (((((((( ))))))))
 
I have a friend who had a horse that apparently got lammi but it took ages getting better and in the end they found it was cushings. He was put on some drug (can't remember the name) but it was 100% effective and he came back into almost full exercise.
 
I was going to metion cushings too - horse at my yard kept getting lami despite very careful management. The vets finally gave her a bllod test and found it was cushings causing it - its now managed and she is being turned out and is happy for the 1st time in months.
 
My friends pony kept getting lami, even with careful management etc and it turns out she's diabetic - been on med for the diabeaties and hasn't had lami since.
 
Hi you mention that your horse has COPD. What sort of treatment does he receive for this or are you able to manage it without meds.
I only ask as I have a mare who suffers with SPAOPD and requires steriod inhalers in the summer mths. Although she has no history of laminitis, I was warned that the steriod treatment would make her more at risk of developing the disease.
I hope that you find some answers soon.
 
I have a friend who lost a 9 year old who kept getting laminitis and ultimately the vets diagnosed cushings. It did not save the pony. She has a second pony who is being managed with cushings related laminitis. Sometimes the diagnosis gives the animal a new lease of life, but not always.

I do not blame your husband for questioning the cost because unless you have bags of money, or excellent insurance, the cost implication of treating an animal is a very serious issue. You keep paying out for an illness you cannot cure, and can only "manage" and which may leave your pony a shadow of his former self. These are hard decisions to make.
 
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Some horses simply never recover - and in your shoes I'd be having a long hard think about his future.

Sorry (((((((( ))))))))

[/ QUOTE ]
What she said.

The insurance shouldn't be difficult. He is not yet recovered from laminitis, and it has flared up again. It is not a separate incident because it is most evident in a different foot, it is a disease inside the horse that you haven't yet found the right treatment for (if there is one) to get on top of it, hence him still showing symptoms in his feet.

Is he on virtually no grass or hard feed?
Is his hay soaked for at least eight hours?
Is the hay cheapo, low energy hay?
And you say he is being shod to help what's going on with his feet.
You could try pergolide, with or without the tests, it might help.
After that, you've done your best, its not worth battling on forever.
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I think you need to rule in or out Cushings and then take it from there. How old is your horse.

Also, if the flare ups happen after shoeing it might be worthwhile to consider whether the trauma of shoeing is enough to cause damage to the laminae and more inflammation. If possible see if your horse can be referred to a remedial farrier, something like imprint shoes might be an option for a while.
 
I would be testing for cushings in the first instance....
I would also want my vet and farrier to talk together about the shoeing issue if this is happening post shoeing and if anything realistically can be done to help this in the long term.

if it isnt that or anything else then I like SS would be thinking about whether he is every going to recover to a satisfactory level.
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I have got two horses 29 and 25 both of which have Cushings and have had episodes of Laminitis.

The first thing your vet needs to determine is what is causing the Laminitis. Laminitis can be caused by so many different things.

Putting on heart bars is a very old fashioned form of treatment. The second your horse is known to have Laminitis it should have rubber frog supports fitted to support and cushion the hoof (these are available from Robert Eustaces Laminitis Trust). If you horse suffers from Cusgings then it will need to be put on medication.
Once you have determined the real reason as to what is causing the Laminitis then you have a good chance of getting the condition under control.
 
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Some horses simply never recover - and in your shoes I'd be having a long hard think about his future.

Sorry (((((((( ))))))))

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and plenty do Pottamus
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I would seriously be finding somewhere else for him if possible. Somewhere with running water so you can soak his hay.
The pony I took on last year...the one who was booked in to be pts....was supposedly on a strict regime but he just kept getting it again and again.
I believe she just was not strict enough...he'd have bits of grass here and there and dunked but not properly soaked hay.
It may be that your horse just cannot have grass anymore. My boy is on a relatively bare track and thats how he has to stay. Hayed all year round.
I believe he just cannot toerate ANY real amount of sugar.

Try detoxing him...water and well soaked hay only. No grass.
My boy is now barefoot. This way I can tell the instant he is having problems. Its only happened once, near the beginning when I thought I'd let him have a bit of grass. Shoes do mask the problem.

Good Luck...I know how hard you've tried. You can do this but you clearly need to try something new as your current regime isn't working.
 
i have one with cushings, hes 17, was in a terrible state when we bought him and very prone to laminitis. now with correct managment and medication he looks fab and is out competing most weekends
 
HI i also have a Laminitic pony who has copd. This must be the worst pair of conditions to have together. The pony needs to live out due to copd but live in due to lami.
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I had Lucy tested for cushings a few years ago and she was clear but she currently has another illness and is on steroids to control it. She has been coming in at night to a dust free shavings bed (I would rather have her on paper but my boss won't let me). She has hoof kind horsehage. Her copd has been alittle irritated so she has been on ventapalmin (sp?) for a few days. She will go back to living out soon and when the grass grows she will have to wear a grazing muzzle. She has worn one before when i had no way of keeping her off the grass.
When Lucy had her first episode of lami she had rotation in all four feet and the vets told me to put her down. She was about 12 when it happend she is now 20 and has had a full life till her latest illness came along.
I hope you find a way of controling your horses condition it is possible with a little hard work and dedication. We have everything crossed your horse makes a full recovary soon.
 
My pony mare has suffered from lammi since the age of 2 she is now 15, the insurance stopped covering her for it a long time ago.

She doesnt have an underlying problem, she was just very sensitives to any feeds/sugars etc

A good farrier is a must, one who will trim correctly for a laminitc. She has had rotation twice, and also has seperation of the hoof wall.

At the moment she is sound and happy mostly because our new farrier is trimming her the way she needs to be trimmed. She has never been shod.

We have 2 places where she can have turn out without grass, and just manage it as best we can

out of 15 years weve have 4 lami free ones, mostly short bouts caught quickly in the other years and treated with rest and acp/bute

One thing we did find is the grazing at one yard caused her problems whilst on another she was out without issue.

I dont really know if any of that helps at all and good luck for your boy
 
Hi, I have been following your posts with great interest, as I have a pony who is EXACTLY the same as yours. His last laminitis flare-ups have been after he was shod. Our vet thought the last shoes had been put on too tight. I changed to a remedial farrier and we have had two lots of Imprint shoes but they haven't been a great success because he slides all over the yard in them (even with studs in!) We have had problems with abscesses since putting the Imprint shoes on as well, which I know is probably coincidental, but when an Imprint shoe has to be taken off after a week and cannot be re-used, that is £65 written off pretty quickly. I would be wary of going for them with an abscess-prone pony! We are thinking of trying some Old Macs, but not if he is going to slide around and fall over in those as well! My sole ray of hope is that our farrier says he can see no reason why my boy should not eventually come sound. I have also got permission from my YO for a little paddock to be woodchipped, which will be a godsend. My boy is not insured for laminitis either (exclusion) and I get similar mutterings from my OH. Please pm me if you feel like comparing notes...our boys do sound remarkably alike. Mine seems to go one step forward and two back.
 
Old 14.2 Pony I rode bless him was 27 for about 5 years, he had cushings and was susceptable to laminitis, but he seemed to manage and gave his all when out hacking, went like the wind, maybe it's down to breed etc as to whether it's managable or not.
 
For the laminitis I would be looking at a bare paddock and feeding soaked hay only along with equilibrium or a feed balancer once the attack is over. I would also be looking at getting the shoes off and using frog supports whilst in an attack but make sure you get a good farrier who can trim well or a highly recommended trimmer(people from your local area may be able to recommend a good one), depending on how good hooves are you may need to look at boots but I wouldn't worry about this in the short term whilst using frog supports. I don't know much about cushings I'm afraid but I would be getting the horse tested for this and then go from there. Good luck and I really hope you find a way to manage your boy.
 
If it's Cushings related, then the most important thing you can do is get the diet exactly right. You need to soak his hay thoroughly for a few hours. Getting the hay tested is a good idea, or buying in some hay that has been tested for sugar and starch levels. I also use Formula4 Feet as a supplement. I also don't allow any access to grass at all and I'm not giving any other feeds (at the moment), but in the past have used alfalfa pellets and Healthy Hooves.

My little pony has recently started on Pergolide (treatment for Cushings) and the difference has been amazing. You need to talk to your vet about testing for Cushings and bear in mind that there are several tests (some of which are very dodgy for a laminitic pony). The latest method of testing seems to be to test endogenous ACTH along with glucose and insulin in a single blood draw first thing in the morning. I've not had my pone tested yet as she was so poorly we gave her Pergolide as a last resort. If your lad does have Cushings then diet and medication should give him a really good chance of recovery. Good luck,

Sue
 
Has your vet talked about stress induced laminitis?

Our vet suggested that we retire Little Lad due to his laminitis; he gets it from even things like carrots
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He can get quite stressed when ridden and she was worried that it might trigger another bout. Maybe the shoeing is causing stress, which is triggering the flare ups?
 
Ditto the mentioning of the supporting his feet side.

Like somone said, heartbar shoes are old fashioned and don't really help - the pain comes from the hoof wall attachment so forcing them to walk on the wall using shoes (rather than the frog and sole using pads and boots) can make it worse.

I had a VERY laminitic little pony who was delivered with raging lami, 15degrees rotation in his fronts (4degrees behind) and abcess tracts running up inside the front walls. F******* idiots who gave him to us (me and little girl at the yard) told her he was just a bit foot sore from a severe trim and denied he had lamintis.
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Along with the obvious diet change etc we went down the boots and pads route, mostly because is was a LOT cheaper, and often more effective.

He was in lily pads (big frog support pads) stuck to hoof boot pads (thick neoprene type pads) inside some hoof boots (cavallo are by far the easist for that kind of thing). He wore his boots when out (with a grazing muzzle) and a thick thick deep with cheap nappies (asda smart price) holding on the pad, which were duct taped to his feet.

If your boy is worse after being shod I would have his shoes off and try the boots and pads. It's much much cheaper and he can have the toe shortened every couple of weeks as the rotation starts to grown out.

This is fudge the day he arrive, disgustingly fat and sporting his nappies. Boots were bought the next day.
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Feet after their trim, but you can clearly see the wall speration and the prominant pedal bone.

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And the abcess tracts running up the front wall.
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I had a whole load of photo's showing the improvement of his feet but I can't find them! Surfice to say they grew out brillaintly over a year and he's back gravel-crunching over everthing and anything, boot-free. Plus he's slim;)

Good luck with your pony. If you can get him onto pergolide you may be able to control the cushings (the most likely cause of the lami) and concentrate on getting his feet better.
 
Pottamus I have been thinking about your post....

Am I right in thinking that your horse was pretty fit and not overweight when this first flared up in August? If so I really would go down the route of checking him for cushings first and also thinking about his farriery I think there has been some really great info on this thread. All the previous ponies I have known with lami have been treated in a very 'traditional' way its interesting to hear about the alternatives now.
 
I'm sorry, I have to say it, but how shoes can help in laminitis I am completely unsure

Take a hoof where the wall and solar attachment is compromised, and then put a peripheral load bearing structure round the hoof where the solar structures are taken out of support - putint the sole into a bridging role? Never has made sense to me.

I have two laminitics - both recovered. Neither using shoes, barefoot and happy. Diet is key - restrict grass, no cereals, plenty of vits and minerals.

You have to ask - if heartbars are the right approach then why is your horse a) sore after them and b) still sore with them!

Boots and 12mm pads - for work - nothing in the field. Let his feet work as they were designed to work. I'd listen to your husband!!!!!
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P.S> was he treated with steroids for the COPD? One of ours has COPD and we found that it can be treated quite well by changing his environment - but also being laminitic, the haylage was not an option. Can you run a hose to give you soaking water? Our COPD pony is now on plain hay - I found a great non dusty source and he copes well.
 
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