I don't know what to do about this little ex racehorse :(

[zaminda]

For me, I would say the horse lacks top line, which will make fitting a saddle quite difficult for the moment. The rider in the trotting video, is also not helping as is rising a bit too far back, and not exactly landing gently either.
I would be looking to do some more ground work with poles and a pessoa or similar, and re evaluate when the horse has put some weight and top line on. Hill work in walk would also be beneficial.
For what its worth I still ride my little ex race mare (admittedly an arab) in a racing saddle most of the time, although I have a thorowgood as well.

 

[Spotsrock]

You can hire a tree less from Bettersaddles to give it a try - we are in a barefoot now, and up until this point I didn't know our pony could do medium trot - think his treed saddle always pinched his shoulders, and always dry spots under front panels which is indicative

I still prefer my treeless on him, dressage judge once commented it looked very smart and comfortable, never marked down for it, we only have the treed for sharer really! Nice to know my boy's not alone lol.
His racing trainer was a good 'un, regular physio etc so no blame there, just awkward B2!

 

[hihosilver]

could you not turn him away for 6 months and then see how he is in the spring?

 

[eggs]

Having spoken to my vet in the past about KS and listened to what the vet at the recent BD conference had to say about KS I would be tempted to try to build up his top line with lungeing and long reining. I would also agree with using something like a double thickness Polypad under the saddle.

He does seem to be a very sweet horse who deserves to be given the chance you are giving him.

Both vets referred to above were of the opinion that you could x-Ray the back of a horse showing no signs of KS and find a less than perfect gap between processes and conversely x-Ray the back of a horse showing 'signs' of KS and see no touching processes. Working the horse correctly over the back so that the hind feet came under the body towards the balance point rather than long and low with an inverted (concave) spine should be of major benefit.

 

[justabob]

Poor little horse, he is straight out of training and you put a saddle on him like that, then ride him sitting deep in canter. He has not got the muscle to do that. He will be used to his riders out of the saddle and is physically not ready to do this. Sheesh, re training race horses takes time to get them ready and able to carry a rider in a completely different way to the way their muscles have been formed to race. I would have thought any body would have known that.

 

[AmyMay]

What a lovely little horse.

Please don't start panicking about KS - it's the new 'navicular', and every horse with a sore back must have it.

My thoughts are:

Yes the rider is not sitting properly on the saddle - that will make the horse uncomfortable.

The horse will be used to a much lighter saddle - the weight of a regular gp needs to be accounted for.

Don't be tempted to pad the saddle out - its been fitted to the horse, and anything that's too thick underneath it will compromise its fit.

Does this saddle have thoroughbred panels?

Has the horse seen a farrier since its been with you? A lot of back pain can be a manifestation of a foot problem.

I would spend the money on a good vet check.

I would also turn him away until the spring.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Back Justabob everytime, she is one wise lady and knows her stuff. If it was me I'd turn him away for the winter.

 

[spacefaer]

Back in the day, racehorse out of training had anything from 6 months to a year in the field to de-train, to become less of a racehorse and more of a horse, but that seems to have gone out of the window.

Echo what people have said previously - he is not used to carrying a seated rider, he has no topline and has probably never been ridden in anything but a straight line before

I'm sure he's a delightful horse with a charming personality - but that's why it's so important to get it right for him.

FWIW, I think the saddle gullet looks too narrow for him - each side of the gullet looks to be pressing on the edge of his spinal processes, which will really make him sore, particularly if he is being asked to carry a rider sitting in a new position, for which he won't have muscle.

I had a dressage horse with very wide spinal processes, and most saddles pinched the skin on the edge of the bone - we had to be very careful to get a saddle with a wide enough gullet and to make sure that we didn't pad the saddle too much, so that the padding made the fit more narrow

 

[Michen]

What a lovely little horse.

Please don't start panicking about KS - it's the new 'navicular', and every horse with a sore back must have it.

My thoughts are:

Yes the rider is not sitting properly on the saddle - that will make the horse uncomfortable.

The horse will be used to a much lighter saddle - the weight of a regular gp needs to be accounted for.

Don't be tempted to pad the saddle out - its been fitted to the horse, and anything that's too thick underneath it will compromise its fit.

Does this saddle have thoroughbred panels?

Has the horse seen a farrier since its been with you? A lot of back pain can be a manifestation of a foot problem.

I would spend the money on a good vet check.

I would also turn him away until the spring.

Thanks The saddle is very, very light as its a synthetic hybrid, the only leather bits are seat and knee rolls. Its even lighter than a wintec (though I appreciate still heavier than a racing saddle). No, its a t8 compact which has a flatter tree and is supposedly suitable for his back. He hasn't had the farrier yet but trying desperately to book in! Do you think he should be totally turned away, or try and build his topline from the ground?

 

[AmyMay]

Well personally I would turn him away until the spring. And I'm afraid I'd be looking very closely at the saddle fit too (sorry). And then I'd start some quiet in hand work with him - especially long reining.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Turn him away and ask Justabob advice, she has an ex-racehorse.

 

[justabob]

Turn him away OP, then start with a horse that you can fit a saddle on. Re training racehorses does not happen over night.

 

[Rouletterose]

Its the hippo horse!!!

My first thought in the trot video is that the rider is sitting on the back of the saddle in rather a chair seat, that combined with his lack of topline, having to use new muscles and that he was sore when treated by the physio originally will make the tension come back to what you started with, the back muscles will take months to fully recover and build up, one treatment will have helped but not completely solved any ongoing tension that has taken years to develop.

I would put a thicker pad under the saddle for a start, most horses in training will have been ridden in a racing style of saddle with several thick pads underneath, not ideal but it does cushion things and it will allow the muscles to start to relax.
I would then take a step back, plenty of walking getting him relaxed and stretching, encourage him to soften laterally and use himself but only in walk until he has built up more, do some lunging so he can move in trot without anyone restricting him or asking too much, get the physio back if required, you can do plenty of stretches and massaging yourself to help him, he looks a super type and well worth the time and effort you will need to put in to get him going well.

Absolutely 100% agree with this^^^ he moves freely and is forward, rider is too heavy sitting on back of saddle, try to sit much lighter, slightly out of the saddle, lovely horse, thick pad, and he'll be fine.

 

[Clodagh]

You said you took him for 40 minute hacks? That is a long time to have the weight of a rider on if you have no muscle. Slowly, slowly and you will get there.
Entirely agree with Twiggy too, defrauding insurance companies is regarded as the norm nowadays, then we al lmoan when our premiums go up.
Off my soapbox now, best of luck, he looks lovely, I just think you are expecting too much of him.

 

[Nudibranch]

Id agree with BPs advice. Slowly, slowly, walking and hill work but preferably after a few months of turning away. No school work at all. Might be worth trying a Suber pad as well. Personally I would avoid Polypads and the like especially with a question mark over saddle fit.

I bought an almost identical boy the same weekend as you, mine has a star and snip though. Lovely thing, needs a bit of weight and some gentle fittening. But ex racers are so rewarding.

 

[Michen]

Thanks everyone, decision has been made to turn him away for a couple of months (he will still have chiro this weekend and whatever follow up treatments he then needs) then do a couple of months of long reining, leading him off other horses to start hill work with no rider and pole work. Then new saddle fitter out and go from there. He has such a lovely, biddable and sweet attitude and I would hate to ruin that from the start. Thanks everyone for your help xxxx

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I would say its saddle/lack if topline related.

If her is just out of racing then he needs a lot or topline build up to take a rider.
Turning away is one option but a friend got a of the track.tb and he went straight into retraining. She just did lots of lunge work, passoa, and hacked out in walk for ages and then built up over time. Didn't see a school for the first three months.

Our ex racer cant have thorowgoods as the gullets are too long and dig into his huge shoulders.
He is in a wintec jump at the mo, 16 1/2 inch as he has a small.rib cage for a big horse.
He changed shape monthly, getting the right feed and exercise program.to build up.topline is key. And also to be aware they aren't uses to heavy riders on their backs so try being light off the saddle for a while.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Thanks everyone, decision has been made to turn him away for a couple of months (he will still have chiro this weekend and whatever follow up treatments he then needs) then do a couple of months of long reining, leading him off other horses to start hill work with no rider and pole work. Then new saddle fitter out and go from there. He has such a lovely, biddable and sweet attitude and I would hate to ruin that from the start. Thanks everyone for your help xxxx

Posted at the same time.
Hope he has a nice holiday

 

[AmyMay]

Look forward to his updates

 

[Spring Feather]

He's a lovely looking boy. You're doing the right thing by turning him away for a few months. That, like JaB said, is almost always the first start to letting down racers. I would not automatically think there was anything physically wrong with your horse, he's a racer, they are not physically the same as regular ridden horses. Give him time and get to know him for the next couple of months, feed him correctly and then bring him back into work and I think you'll find quite a change in him. Congratulations on buying him, he's very sweet

 

[Michen]

He's a lovely looking boy. You're doing the right thing by turning him away for a few months. That, like JaB said, is almost always the first start to letting down racers. I would not automatically think there was anything physically wrong with your horse, he's a racer, they are not physically the same as regular ridden horses. Give him time and get to know him for the next couple of months, feed him correctly and then bring him back into work and I think you'll find quite a change in him. Congratulations on buying him, he's very sweet

Thank you... rather lovely story behind it as well. I bet on him two years ago at Kempton and he won me enough money to buy a bottle of champagne! Then saw him advertised on facebook and recognised the name, had to go see him of course. I very nearly didn't take him because he just seemed so quiet and miserable, it was my non horsey boyfriend who insisted he came home and talked me round to the pity buy! He's got the best attitude I've ever seen in a horse.

 

[Echo Bravo]

And when you do bring him back into work, give Justabob a nudge she's great with ex-racehorses and would guide you well.

 

[Spring Feather]

It was meant to be! What a lovely little story

PS. I'd ditch that saddle.

 

[Michen]

It was meant to be! What a lovely little story

PS. I'd ditch that saddle.

Yeh the saddles going back. When the saddler responded to my queries via text with a, " if you don't want it give it back" I'd pretty much had it. Going to get Kay Humphries out when he's back in ridden work.

 

[Peregrine Falcon]

What a great story. I hope everything works out for you. There is something about your first win or a horse that captures your heart. Look forward to seeing pics next year. Just out of interest what's his name?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It sounds as if you have made the best decisions.

The TB Rehab charities always turn them away for several months, involve really knowledgeable physios and concentrate on building the muscles necessary for 'normal' ridden work. That saddle doesn't even look to fit without the rider. It sits to one side of the horse.

Good luck with him, he has fallen on his hooves!

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Thanks The saddle is very, very light as its a synthetic hybrid, the only leather bits are seat and knee rolls. Its even lighter than a wintec (though I appreciate still heavier than a racing saddle). No, its a t8 compact which has a flatter tree and is supposedly suitable for his back. He hasn't had the farrier yet but trying desperately to book in! Do you think he should be totally turned away, or try and build his topline from the ground?

Its not a matter of weight of the saddle, after all the weight of the rider will always be far greater, it is a matter of fit. Racing yards use full tree race exercise saddles for 95% of their horses because they fit like a glove. The riders are all light in the saddle, that is to say they do not interfere with the horse's natural free flowing gait. Even when horses need a bit of schooling [yes this does sometimes occur with racehorses!], they are only asked for light contact. You will only see standard snaffle bits used.
The English saddle is more rigid and the riders ask them to use different muscles.
This horse needs to build condition along the back, before trying to ride English style.
I would want him to have time off from riding until the body has re shaped, it does not matter if you want to do some ground work, it depends on your own time scale, but the main thing is to have him outside as much as possible.

 

[BeingKate]

Hi MIchen,

I've only read your original post so apologies if i'm echoing anyone else.

We had a very similar problem ...

We brought a wonderful TB at the performance auction in May for my other half. He was ridden and went so well, they looked a wonderful pair, we bid on him and won, and were ecstatic. He had a very well known reputable vet do a 5* vetting and would have passed had he not have had some small sarcoids. We brought him, loaded him, and as he went up the ramp he suddenly lost his footing, slipped and fell off.

Moving on to when we got him home, and after a couple of days of getting saddle sorted OH got on him. Bearing in mind OH is a sickeningly good and secure rider, they got a few metres down the track to the school, TB erupted in a serious way, OH came off eventually and broke his wrist, and Bob came galloping back to the yard shaking.

We decided to get th back man out which was obviously what we were going to do anyway but we decided to treat as urgent. Back ma as recommended by top vet came out, gave him a tweak and went "yeah he just needs more topline, nice 'orse tho" and boogered off.

OH got back on a week later (wrist still poorly). Lunged him first, OH got on, fine, went to walk off, erupted again.

The next thing we did was get a lady with a thermal imaging camera out. We decided as we hadn't had him long enough for insurance to be valid (takes 2 weeks for the policy to become valid for this one) it would help us pinpoint any problems without expensive scans and xrays. Body was fine, spine showed up white (super super hot) so got vet out.

Vet said without x-raying it was hard to diagnose however she pointed out one side of his nose was very subtly wonkey, as was one eye, one ear. She asked if he'd fallen and twisted recently. We said how he fell off the ramp, his back end went off and he corkscrewed his whole body. What she thinks is he'd had mild KS to start with which had just gone undiagnosed, but when he'd twisted he'd rammed everything together, damaged a nerve, and that had resulted in a complete blockage and partial paralysis of the right side.

Sadly for him that's curtains (he's retired to the field for now as he's field sound and only 7, but time will tell)

What I would suggest is before investing in expensive scans, xrays and investigations, get someone out to do a thermal scan and that can indicate any hot spots which you can point out to your vet and back person and that can help identify potential problems.

Good luck I hope he's ok, he's absolutely gorgeous.

 

[BeingKate]

Thanks everyone, decision has been made to turn him away for a couple of months (he will still have chiro this weekend and whatever follow up treatments he then needs) then do a couple of months of long reining, leading him off other horses to start hill work with no rider and pole work. Then new saddle fitter out and go from there. He has such a lovely, biddable and sweet attitude and I would hate to ruin that from the start. Thanks everyone for your help xxxx

Just seen this, good decision

 

[FairyLights]

Have only read original post and the one with the quote above. He seems a fabulous horse I think you and he are very lucky to have found each other, I think you are definitely doing the right thing by him, I wish you many happy times together in the future