i dont know what to do. Please help me

[_daisy_]

im at a loss. I really dont know what to do with Chantin. do any of you remeber this post i made a little while ago?
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/sh...rue#Post1218122
well shes getting worse. Ive ridden her with and without her martingale. Doesnt make any difference. Shes ridden in a snaffle bridle with flash strap - tried with and without the flash - she seems worse without. Shes ridden in a KK snaffle with the lozenge in the middle - could this help by changing it? Her tack had been checked and everything is ok.
She only does it in walk, never in trot or canter. She starts doing it very slightly and it doesnt bother me, its just when she really starts. She gets that bad that when she throws her head her feet come up higher than they normally do in walk.

Im a right in thinking shes just trying it on with me? I find it hard to get after her as if I push her too much she then stops dead and refuses to move until another horse has come past her, then shell ride onlike nothing has happened.
Can anyone think of anything else i can do cos im just at the end of my tether with it.

ETS - forgot to mention she is ridden in a crusader quiet mask with full ears and nose net as the flies drive her mad. Shes been better since ive put her in this. Also ive cust her off all her feed - just gets a handful of alfa a lite and ive put her on a calmer to see if it helps. She is a lot calmer in herself but still the head nodding continues

 

[Rambo]

Have you tried a standing martingale ?

 

[JAK]

How do you normally respond to the behaviour? Ignore it, get after her, what?

 

[_daisy_]

that had crossed my mind - can just improvise with her running martingale yes?

 

[Kelly1982]

How old is she??

Does she still do it when you ride her into contact (in an outline) or does she only do it on a loose rein??

 

[_daisy_]

I ignore her most of the time. When she gets really bad I try and push her forward as her head just keeps coming up higher and higher. Nothing seems to work with her though. If you tap her with the whip on her shoulder she stops it for a split second then starts up again.

 

[Argie_Spew]

Yeh u can modify with the running. Just run the leather through the rings and attatch to the noseband.
Have u asked your vet about this problem?
x

 

[Ginn]

We had the same problem with one horse once (except he'd also do it in trot too occasionally). We had everything checked, changed his bit to a copper roller with D's, no martingale, tried ignoring it - you name it! Then one day I got totally hacked off with him and in short "knocked his back teeth out". He instantly stopped! 10 minutes later he tried it again and instantly again I gave one very quick and sharp pull and he stopped. It took a few weeks of hacking to completely nip it in the bud but it worked. However, I felt awful doing it so I'd say only do this as a last resort!

 

[_daisy_]

Kelly shes 4. Ill give you a quick breakdown of what shes done.
I backed her at 3 (last July) rode her for approx 3 months (only hacking) then turned her away for the winter. She was brought back into work this March for 2 weeks but then turned away again for a month as my trainer thought she could do with a little longer time to mature. She was brought back into work May and had 2 months schooling and hacking. This was the 1st time she has had any schooling (bar lunging/long lining). Then she cam home end of June and it was decided to give her a break and just hack her about to built up her strength. There you have it.
She never nodded when i first broke her, neither did she do it when she was at my instructors. Its only since she came home and shes slowly getting worse.
Ive tried riding her in a contact and on a longer rein and shes as bad in either.

 

[_daisy_]

AS no i havent specifically asked him about this problem however we did discuss her behaviour the last time he came to see her about her legs swelling. he thought that her feed had got something to do with it and to remove all feed to see if it helped. Also advised me to put her on a calmer.
might be worth ringing him for his advise. Might ring my physio as well to see his view on it

 

[spaniel]

Have you had a qualified EDT look at her teeth under sedation?

 

[acolvine]

What happens if you give your horse a loose rein in the walk? Does the nodding stop?

Be careful if you put her in a standing martingale in case she panicks and does something silly. She may be nodding and asking for her head for a reason. If she wants to stretch then maybe she is sore somewhere and wants to be on a long rein so that her body can compensate.
With regards to a calmer i strongly recomend NAF magic in the long term or temperelax for short term. (if your not already using it). It contains magnesium which most others don't, works on my TB mare a treat.
If you get the problem in the school as well as on hacks then try doing lots of pattern/bending work in walk, introduce poles/grids so she has to think and may take her mind off the nodding. By doing the poles and bending etc you will be stretching out muscles and again releasing tension.
Hope that helps.

 

[_daisy_]

thanks J. I dont really want to resort to that untill ive gone through everything. I can completely understnad why you got frustrated becuse it is so annoying.

 

[the watcher]

Ebi, this is a very young horse, whilst getting tough might be the answer you can't determine that by inviting views on a website and describing symptoms. You need to eliminate physical causes (ears/eyes/poll/back) and possibly address stress as a cause. Can I suggest you go back to your trainer and seek more advice, if she wasn't ready earlier this year maybe she still isn't mature enough mentally, even if she has grown physically.
Only when you are satisfied should you think about using gadgets and getting tough

 

[_daisy_]

Spaniel - she had her teeth done in March by Sally Kingsley. She didnt have to sedate her and she said everything was fine. It might be an idea to get her back though as shes at that age when everything has changed and should be settling down.

 

[acolvine]

Also have you had the saddle checked? As she is so young and being brought into work her shape will change a lot so i def recommend regular saddle checks.

 

[Ginn]

Like I say it was a last resort - check out every other avenue first as its not a nice thing to do and if there is a physical reason it could create more problems!

 

[kick_On]

ditto TW - a very wise bit of advice

 

[_daisy_]

Amanda , thanks for this. Shes completely different in the school. No problems at all. Her walk is her hardest pace. She is quite lazy in her walk however she is a lot better than she was since she came home in June.
Im using the Feel good 30 science formula calmer and it has made a difference. I dont know whether to leave her on this for a little longer to see if she gets any better before changing it as shes only been on it for a week or so.
I had wondered if she might panick at the standing martingale however it would not get the benefit of the martingale if i had it loose on her. the quest goes on

 

[Kelly1982]

Hmmm my old horse used to be similar as a 4yo but instead of head shaking he used to grab the reins from your hands, he would only do it in walk and would only do it out hacking and it used to drive me crazy as well as give me loads of blisters.

I was advised to use a standing martingale (something i wasn't that happy about) and it did absolutly nothing!!! He was pulling his head down rather than throwing it up though.

I found that riding him into contact and keeping his mind occupied by making him work actually stopped this and after a few months i could hack him out on a long rein without any rein snatching. He would sometimes do it on the last stretch home but nowhere near as bad.

I'm not really sure what else to suggest to be honest apart from trying to keep her mind occupied so she 'forgets' to keep doing it.

What about long reining her out?? Does she do it then??

 

[_daisy_]

whilst i understand everything that you have said i thought that some of the HHO members might have gone through the same problems witht their horse. I have sought advice from my instructor and she has told me ride her through it and to persevere. Im having a lesson on Saturday so i will ask her again what her thoughts are.
Mentally my horse is fine and ready to accept new things however she wasnt pysically ready in March. My instructor was happy with her progress and was happy for me to just hack her around when she returned home.
May i just let you know that i would not want to ruin my horse by taking suggestions from members on this forum without thoroughly investigating their advice. There are members on here that i value their advice and they wouldnt want any harm to come to either Chantin or myself, whereas it has been known that members will "add on" their advice as a joke.

 

[_daisy_]

J - i understand that it was a last resort and it obviously worked for you. I must get to the bottom of this for both Chantins sake and mine

 

[_daisy_]

Cheers Kelly. I must admit i am wary of putting her in a standing martingale.
When i used to long line her she never did anything with her head. Maybe i should just make sure i try to ride her in a contact and vary the speed of the hack so not to have lots and lots of walking but little spurts of trot put in to keep her occupied.

 

[JAK]

If she only does it out hacking, never in the school, this would suggest it is excitement or stress related rather than due to a physical cause, presuming you use exactly the same tack for both activities?

Is she equally bad alone & in company, or is she still only hacking out in company? Could she be getting frustrated at having to keep pace with a quicker, or more likely, slower walking pace of a regular hacking companion for example? Is there another horse you could hack out with, that has a natural walking pace more akin to hers maybe? (This would also allow you to have a more 'natural' conversation with a fellow rider etc., which may also help keep her calm & relaxed!)

 

[burtie]

It does sound very like the start of headshaking. I used to have a TB who had exactly the same symptoms, almost like he stamped his feet as he threw his head up and down. This was years ago and little was know about the condition then. Nosenets were not available. I tried putting a normal browband fly fringe around his noseband(someone suggested it!), the one with all the tassles and this pretty much cured him. he used to flick the tassles into his mouth and chew them sometimes but stopped the head tossing. I have no idea why, it didn't seem to be flies as such as he'd do it when none were around, but was a summer thing and worse on warm dry days. There are theories it sensitivety to pollen, and the tassles de-sensitizes them. In these cases a nose net may not help but the tassles did!

Worth a try as it won't cost much and you'll always have a spare fly fringe if it doesn't work!

He also only really did it in walk, out on hacks.

 

[S_N]

My initial thoughts was the start of headshaking too - hmmmm. What are the road like around you? Would it be worth trying her in a hackamore? I know she's only a baby and I cringe at suggesting trying one on a girlie of her tender age, but it might be worth considering discussing with your instructor!

 

[acolvine]

Does she get stressy when you try to take up a contact in walk on a hack? Also is it worse in summer than winter?

She just sounds so young to be using a martingale already. Could be having the opposite affect and making her want to nod her head more.
Sounds like an allergy verging on habitual but you maybe wise to speak to your vet about it.

 

[Kelly1982]

Thats what i did, i tried to keep the ride varied with short bursts or trot and canter (obvioulsy only if we were in a field, i'm not that mean LOL) to keep him thinking.

You could also try long reining one day, riding the next etc and try taking her to lots of different places if possible.

Your trainer obvioulsy knows her best though but its a few things to think about and try.

One thing i have learnt with youngsters though is they drive you crazy with something for weeks and then all of a sudden forget about it and move onto something else equally as annoying ha ha

 

[the watcher]

Kelly, you post reminds me of a 4yo I was riding last year who snatched the rein when he was getting a bit tired towards the end of a hack, he also started doing it if he saw something that made him a bit edgy.

it may be that Ebi's youngster is just finding going out a bit much to deal with

 

[JAK]

Unless she really is a headshaker of course!
We have however been 'fooled' ourselves, by CB, whose violent headshaking made it almost impoosible to ride him out hacking etc. when he first came! (Poor child was literally being wrenched out of the saddle - it was awful, extremely dangerous & we came very close to returning him because of it!)
However, after careful observation etc., we realised it was all stress-related & that it was a rather extreme 'displacemet activity' for times when he was struggling to cope!
Worth investigating/eliminating all other possibilities I think, in the hopes that it isn't down to her being a headshaker & is something more easily sort outable!