I hate having a livery yard :(

conniegirl

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I don't care where it is, £20pw week is peanuts and I've no idea why people do it for that money, even if there's no mortgage. I obviously don't know the liveries in the livery yard under discussion but I do feel that livery prices are partly to blame for the welfare crisis currently. Its too easy to collect horses and it may all be fine until you find yourself with nowhere to put them or if prices suddenly hike and suddenly your costs go up by 25-50%, then what? I've seen it too often, don't have what you can't plan for in an emergency and if you don't have your own place, you are never completely safe. Its difficult enough to place two horses at livery, three or more even more so.

The reason people 'won't pay it is because they don't have to.

I have three, at home and I rent fields. No arena although I have parking for my lorry ;) Taking into account the cost of the stables, mortgage etc I don't do it for £20pw. I've actually not paid £20pw ever tbh, even yards round my way that were charging £25pw DIY 10 years ago woke up and started charging more.
I'm in the north east, where a 3 bed house with 5 acres of land, 4 stables and a sand school will set you back around £200k. (one just up the road from the yard where I keep my horses just sold for this), so if my YO put her prices up by more than £10 a week it would be cheaper for me to buy my own place with land rather than rent a house and have one horse on livery and yes i've had my own place before so I know how much it costs to run a yard.
 
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Embo

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I'm in the north east, where a 3 bed house with 5 acres of land, 4 stables and a sand school will set you back around £200k. (one just up the road from the yard where I keep my horses just sold for this)...
Crikey, I paid way more for my 3-bed semi, no land, with a main-line railway at the end of the garden! I think I need to move up North lol :D

And DIY livery down here - I was paying £38 per week! Most of the stables leaked, had to pay extra for decent storage, the 2x schools flood when it rained and fields turned into a bog in winter.

Phew! Glad I'm out of there!

Back to main topic; your house, your land, your rules. Do the field swap. If they complain, tell them it's that or they are given notice, they will then deal with it or leave.
 

Pedantic

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Someone said you should to grow a pair, why not cut off the stallions balls and wear them around your waist, then ask all the liveries if anyone "has a problem" with the stabling arrangements ;-)
 

Vodkagirly

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Where abouts? It's 200k for a 3 bed semi where I live, outskirts of Newcastle.
Last time I looked, there was nothing with land for less than 800k on right move. Duke of Northumberland owns so much land that the price of what remains is high.
 
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Where abouts? It's 200k for a 3 bed semi where I live, outskirts of Newcastle.
Last time I looked, there was nothing with land for less than 800k on right move. Duke of Northumberland owns so much land that the price of what remains is high.
I used to live just north of there and agree. I actually think its by the by though, my place (less than 5 acres) cost a bit over £200K-why would that mean I should only charge £20pw for a livery if I wanted one? If I factored in an arena at £20K etc there's no way. it adds up and I'm not even talking any profit.
 

Stockers

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Glad you have a short term solution. As has been said - your house, your rules.

I am lucky enough to livery with a friend. She accommodates me for company as much as anything. I am very grateful and am very aware of how much hard work goes into maintaining the lovely facilities so try and be an considerate as I possibly can.
 

MrsElle

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Calling Mrs E - have you got yourself sorted m'dear? Swapped paddocks so you can use the barn?
Fingers xx'd :)
There is an update.....

I waited until the livery had come home to inform her that I would be putting my horses in 'her' field. She wasn't overly impressed, but couldn't say much. I told her she could use another field if she wished to turn out her horses, but she rarely does so that isn't a huge issue. I also offered her another stable (much too small for mine, but ok for hers) as one of her stables had water in the front as the yard was flooding. She said she couldn't move as hers are colts/stallions.

She then told me that she was withholding rent for one stable due to to the flooding.

She will be getting notice.

All problems solved!
 

Clodagh

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There is an update.....

I waited until the livery had come home to inform her that I would be putting my horses in 'her' field. She wasn't overly impressed, but couldn't say much. I told her she could use another field if she wished to turn out her horses, but she rarely does so that isn't a huge issue. I also offered her another stable (much too small for mine, but ok for hers) as one of her stables had water in the front as the yard was flooding. She said she couldn't move as hers are colts/stallions.

She then told me that she was withholding rent for one stable due to to the flooding.

She will be getting notice.

All problems solved!
Good news. :)
 
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There is an update.....

I waited until the livery had come home to inform her that I would be putting my horses in 'her' field. She wasn't overly impressed, but couldn't say much. I told her she could use another field if she wished to turn out her horses, but she rarely does so that isn't a huge issue. I also offered her another stable (much too small for mine, but ok for hers) as one of her stables had water in the front as the yard was flooding. She said she couldn't move as hers are colts/stallions.

She then told me that she was withholding rent for one stable due to to the flooding.

She will be getting notice.

All problems solved!
I'm glad she made it easy for you (well, you know what I mean!).
 

Alec Swan

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There is an update.....

I waited until the livery had come home to inform her that I would be putting my horses in 'her' field. She wasn't overly impressed, but couldn't say much. I told her she could use another field if she wished to turn out her horses, but she rarely does so that isn't a huge issue. I also offered her another stable (much too small for mine, but ok for hers) as one of her stables had water in the front as the yard was flooding. She said she couldn't move as hers are colts/stallions.

She then told me that she was withholding rent for one stable due to to the flooding.

She will be getting notice.

All problems solved!
Give 'em enough rope! :)

Alec.
 

Luci07

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hmmm...not sure why this has now turned into a "bash the liveries" thread!

I have been a livery for years. Sure I have pissed off my various YO's from time to time, they have certainly done it to me! I have voted with my feet when it became unpleasant but for the vast majority have been pretty happy. Moved to a private yard about 3 months ago and it is working really well for me. I am well aware of all the "hidden" costs (insurance, muck removal, utilities, etc etc) and how much time it takes just to maintain the status quo. I know how much feed etc costs, I know how much my horse costs and do wonder if I would really want to keep my horse at home even if I could!

I have read this entire thread with interest. Just one more thing occurs to me (and I don't know the answer) just ensure everything you do is completely above board. If it becomes unpleasant, then I wonder if the liveries think they could retaliate. I am not suggesting you are doing anything underhand, but just worth a thought!
 

crabbymare

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good that its sorted itsef out. being the end of the month its perfect timing for them getting notice and since she is witholding rent you could argue that she has broken the contract herself especially as you have offered an alternative stable. I would make sure that the letter - yes you do need to put it in writing - says that you are giving notice that she has paid to and needs to be out by x date. one thing I would do is if she is due to pay on the first then I would wait until the rent is in your hand or bank before you give them the letter as a lot of people will then decide to withold all rent. all be strong and expect her to come back with a lot of reasons she cannot move and wants extra tme to find a place. and if the others are moaning it will work as a kick up the backside to them that they need to behave.
 

Sandstone1

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Feel a bit sorry for your liveries to be honest. It's not their fault there's not enough room. A flooding stable is not on really is it?
Do it fairly and give plenty of notice to them, a few weeks before Christmas is not a great time to be asked to move.
Not saying you should keep the liveries but just put yourself in their position.
 

Pearlsasinger

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I wasn't living here in the summer, I have only been here a couple of months.
So presumably the liveries were there before you? I can foresee problems if the liveries complain to the landowner. Perhaps you could move the grazing round so that those which come in overnight have the worst field, which might mean that someone decides to go anyway. If not, I would give plenty of notice, more than the usual month to whoever you decide has to go, which will build goodwill.
 

willhegofirst

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Y
Feel a bit sorry for your liveries to be honest. It's not their fault there's not enough room. A flooding stable is not on really is it?
Do it fairly and give plenty of notice to them, a few weeks before Christmas is not a great time to be asked to move.
Not saying you should keep the liveries but just put yourself in their position.
But the livery has been offered a different stable that she has turned down. It is a difficult situation, the OP has only owned the yard a couple of months and it takes time to work out what works when you move to a new house, the livery with stallions/colts maybe need to appreciate what she's got and realise it may well be not easy to find a yard to take her horses if she's awkward with the YO.
 

Fools Motto

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Feel a bit sorry for your liveries to be honest. It's not their fault there's not enough room. A flooding stable is not on really is it?
Do it fairly and give plenty of notice to them, a few weeks before Christmas is not a great time to be asked to move.
Not saying you should keep the liveries but just put yourself in their position.

Christmas may not be the best time, but neither should the livery 'with hold' a months stable rent due to a bit of water, WHEN the YO has offered another field and another stable. With colts/stallions in question, I would be damn sure I wouldn't step on anyones feet for fear of losing my place. (I'd put up with the water, or ask/get something done about it). I'm sure that owner would know how hard it is to be excepted anywhere else!?
 

Pearlsasinger

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There is an update.....

I waited until the livery had come home to inform her that I would be putting my horses in 'her' field. She wasn't overly impressed, but couldn't say much. I told her she could use another field if she wished to turn out her horses, but she rarely does so that isn't a huge issue. I also offered her another stable (much too small for mine, but ok for hers) as one of her stables had water in the front as the yard was flooding. She said she couldn't move as hers are colts/stallions.

She then told me that she was withholding rent for one stable due to to the flooding.

She will be getting notice.

All problems solved!
Having now read to the end of the thread(!), that sounds like the perfect solution!
 

willhegofirst

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So presumably the liveries were there before you? I can foresee problems if the liveries complain to the landowner. Perhaps you could move the grazing round so that those which come in overnight have the worst field, which might mean that someone decides to go anyway. If not, I would give plenty of notice, more than the usual month to whoever you decide has to go, which will build goodwill.
I think you will find the OP is the landowner, so no problems there.
 

MrsElle

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Ok, just to clarify a few things -

This is my home and my business - holiday lets and bed and breakfast.

I rent the whole farm, house, outbuildings, land. I have full responsibility for the full site and can utilise it as I see fit, as long as the rent is paid on time.

Yes, I inherited the liveries, but this does not allow them to take advantage.

The liveries currently pay weekly as they did before I got here. I plan to give six weeks notice, the contract states two weeks.

All the liveries have a stable, storage and their own paddock, and use of the school, although it is currently underwater, as are most of the low lying areas of the farm. We have two spare stables but they are too small for my own horses.

I have embarked on a plan of repair on the yard, it is rather forlorn and neglected. This is the first time the stable has flooded while I have been here, apparently it did it last year but the livery still paid her rent to the YO as there was no point withholding rent as the problem wouldn't be rectified anyway! I can't get my head round that, I am planning on doing the work asap to remedy the problem but get rent withheld!

I think that is about everything that needed clarifying!
 

MrsElle

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Great you have got partially sorted (yours ).
At least weekly payment means that you won't lose much if they do a bunk.
Are you doing notice to just that 1or all of them?
It is just the one who will be going, the others are fine. One sometimes needs bringing back into line, but she just gets a bit carried away and is easy to manage :)
 
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Am feeling your pain OP.

I wonder if some, if not all, of your problems are that you "inherited" these liveries?? i.e. YOU haven't made the choice about who YOU have on YOUR place, they were there already and it sounds to me like some of them have taken/are taking, the P!ss, mega big-time.

From what I've read on this thread, one livery has taken her @rse in her hand and given notice, yes?? And will be taking herself and her horses away with her, yes? So that's that one solved!! You may find that the rest follow suit. Let them. Do not panic!

It may just be time for a change-around; which will give you a chance to get some new people in to your yard who will appreciate what they've got!

You cannot help the weather; no-one can, and so I do not think you should be beating yourself up. You are doing the very best you can, under very difficult circumstances right now - this is the darkest and dampest time of the year and any YO will be tearing their hair out as every piece of land is like a swamp and it isn't easy to juggle the demands of liveries -v- the need to preserve pasture so that there's some grass left come next Spring!

Please OP do not take this as a criticism; but you mentioned that your liveries' horses had nice warm beds etc and all home comforts, as it were, whilst your own horses were out and hadn't.......... I wonder if, just if, they mebbe perceived that as a weakness on your part, i.e. you were in fact over-concerned for them, and sometimes nasty little people can take advantage.......??? Which is what I wonder has happened here? It isn't easy being a YO, sometimes you just have to Woman-Up to some people and tough things out. Not easy if you're a softy though! Perhaps you just need to get everyone together in the tack room, stick the kettle on, bring out some cakes, and have a good chat with them - and say, among other things, that you've done your very best to ensure that they and their horses have got the very best, and you're doing the best you can in the circumstances, and oh by the way they'll have noticed that YOUR horses are out in the gales whilst theirs aren't!! Perhaps this would be a way forward? A good honest chat might not do any harm and might just do a power of good.
 

Goldenstar

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For the ones that stay you will have broach the fact that well looked after and maintained yards cost more at some point .
Meantime get that notice served .
 

conniegirl

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Where abouts? It's 200k for a 3 bed semi where I live, outskirts of Newcastle.
Last time I looked, there was nothing with land for less than 800k on right move. Duke of Northumberland owns so much land that the price of what remains is high.
No problems with that here. I'm just east of Hull, the place up the road had been on the market for 3 years at a slightly higher price but recently sold for £200k (I know the lady who bought it)
 
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conniegirl

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I used to live just north of there and agree. I actually think its by the by though, my place (less than 5 acres) cost a bit over £200K-why would that mean I should only charge £20pw for a livery if I wanted one? If I factored in an arena at £20K etc there's no way. it adds up and I'm not even talking any profit.
Which is a fine attitude to have if you can afford not to have liveries.
On the other hand if you need liveries to help pay the mortgage then you won't get them if you charge more than £25 a week.
 
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