I know I'm risking starting another fight RE backing age...

lastchancer

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LC - What would you do with a 20 month old (yearling) like the youngster in the ad?

I wouldn't be backing it for at least a year, it's far too weak. As it looks in the picture, I'd handle it, teach it to load and lead it out in traffic. Lot's of horses are backed and in work before they can even pick their feet up properly or load into a box.
 

FlaxenPony05

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I think it's more the build of the horse than the age of it that puts me off. It looks way way way too weak for anyone, even a child, to be sitting on it. If it was a bit more well built then imo it's not too much of a problem to be sat on. But nothing else. Just sat on, and some good groundwork. Then introduction to proper work at 3 or 4.
 

Fools Motto

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I like the filly! Happy for a youngster her age to wear a saddle briefly, and go out for in hand walks. Not so keen on the idea for her to be 'backed by a child'.. just seems to put too many innocents at risk of a 'fall'. I'm not alarmed at seeing the saddle in question, It isn't a horrendous fit. IMO.
 

Renvers

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Why 'lightly back' so young anyway? I can understand ground work and long reining, but sitting a lightweight child on a saddle that is too big, on a horse that is still growing.

My worry is that novice or idiot buyers will see this as a horse that has been started and they could buy it for the child "so they can grow up together"...
 

Dry Rot

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I do wonder if you lot would insist on your child wearing a hard hat and using scaffolding with a safety line for climbing trees? Do kids still climb trees? Probably not! At least, not without sitting down and writing a risk assessment first!

For goodness sake, the advertiser has probably popped a spare saddle on the pony for a few minutes and a child has sat on it. Shock! Horror! The youngster could fall all of three feet and the pony will have destroyed joints and be dead by four!

I am rather shocked at how wimpish the country has become. It certainly wasn't like this when I was growing up.
 

Arizahn

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I do wonder if you lot would insist on your child wearing a hard hat and using scaffolding with a safety line for climbing trees? Do kids still climb trees? Probably not! At least, not without sitting down and writing a risk assessment first!

For goodness sake, the advertiser has probably popped a spare saddle on the pony for a few minutes and a child has sat on it. Shock! Horror! The youngster could fall all of three feet and the pony will have destroyed joints and be dead by four!

I am rather shocked at how wimpish the country has become. It certainly wasn't like this when I was growing up.

That photo shows what looks like a road, which to me suggests the possibility of traffic - which could be moving at speed. Whether the filly would be able to be moved clear in time remains unknown, but yes that bothers me. It looks like an accident waiting to happen.

Add in the young, scared looking filly - ah to heck with it. I can't be bothered debating it with you. Each to their own. I know I don't like it or agree with it.
 

Patterdale

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What would you do with a 20 month old (yearling) like the youngster in the ad?

Personally, I'd have it in the field and check it's upright and mobile twice a day! Sod faffing on with yearlings in winter.

I do wonder if you lot would insist on your child wearing a hard hat and using scaffolding with a safety line for climbing trees? Do kids still climb trees? Probably not! At least, not without sitting down and writing a risk assessment first!

For goodness sake, the advertiser has probably popped a spare saddle on the pony for a few minutes and a child has sat on it. Shock! Horror! The youngster could fall all of three feet and the pony will have destroyed joints and be dead by four!

I am rather shocked at how wimpish the country has become. It certainly wasn't like this when I was growing up.

Can't help agreeing with this....
 

SadKen

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In this case, no - filly looks sad and nowhere near enough muscle. 20 months is really very much a baby.

When I were a kid we used to faff about with 2 year olds, and on a reasonably mature 2yo cob type I'd have no objection to having a sit on. My grandad used to get us to have a sit on his youngsters around the 2/3yo stage as part of getting them used to being backed properly. They'd have a haynet or a feed and on you'd get! None of them batted an eye. Wouldn't bother with a saddle though, we'd have just had a quick sit and got off again, no saddle required. From what I recall it was easier to lean over and then chuck a leg over as a human than it was to get them used to the saddle.
 

RLS

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as a grumpy old c*w, I can't stand children and couldn't care less if the kid fell off and cracked it's head open. But poor little horsey looks a bit sad :(
 

southerncomfort

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I'm sorry but I feel very strongly that babies should be allowed to be babies.

I feel very sorry for the pony. Its seems to be me that quite often the youngsters with really, calm, lovely temperaments are backed far younger than they should be simply because they are too kind to object.

This pony is not yet 2 years old, it should be out in the field playing with other babies and growing. Nothing wrong with general handling etc, but this is wrong.
 

Queenbee

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It looks a little long I agree, but not the easiest camera angle to really assess from. I also don't think it really matters when its only on for a few minutes and the rider is lightweight. The width is far more important under those circumstances. There's nothing in the quoted bit of the ad to suggest that the horse has worn that saddle for any length of time or for any real work.

Arizahn I agree with it being dangerous to the child. I don't like to see inexperienced (they generally are inexperienced) children used for backing just because they're lightweight. It's the thing bothers me most about the ad. I once saw someone scoop up someone else's two year old child as it wandered past and put it on their yearling to back it! That did make my blood run cold.

It may not be a road though, for those bothered about that. It may be a driveway with a shut gate at the end for all we know.



You do seem very defensive, but then that's your POV, my POV is that this is so sad, goodness me, I got berated on hart for backing Ben at three! I simply can't find another word that more aptly describes this than 'sad' it's not shocking sadly because I know people do this but I break my heart for this little horse and hope whoever buys it treats it with a more sympathetic and respectful approach.

S&S what strikes me is that everyone's interpretation is different. What is acceptable and what is too much in my mind will be different to your POV, and again slightly different to probably every other posters points of view on here. As such, we have absolutely no idea what 'lightly backed' means to this advertiser. Or when they started the process, their idea of light backing may well not the the same as mine and yours, it may be that this horse has had a lot more work done with it than even you feel comfortable with. Personally, just one look at the photo shows me this horse has has more work than I would agree with.
 

HBM1

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I find it quite shocking that some people don't see much wrong with this. a very light child will not just have hopped onto this baby, they would have been lunged etc. Given the growth plates are still open, not to mention the horse's young emotional age, I find it disgusting that people buy youngsters and then cannot wait to back them until it is right for the horse. Some people are really lowering the standards and expectations for horse care. there IS something very wrong with backing young horses such as this.
 

ladyt25

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I wouldn't do it but who made the rules about the age to back a horse? Racehorses are backed at 18mths in many cases and are racing at 2 (and that's even if they are 2!). The picture is a snapshot in time only and fwiw I don't think the child looks too heavy and the saddle being a bit long isn't a huge issue if all they're doing is leading it about.

To be honest I think far too many people are rather precious about horses (and that includes me!) and I think it does horses good to be exposed to all sorts of things and I really don't think (from what the seller's indicating anyway) it should cause any harm. The things we used to do on our ponies as kids were probably seen as a bit dangerous too! :-D
 

Sugar_and_Spice

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You do seem very defensive, but then that's your POV, my POV is that this is so sad, goodness me, I got berated on hart for backing Ben at three! I simply can't find another word that more aptly describes this than 'sad' it's not shocking sadly because I know people do this but I break my heart for this little horse and hope whoever buys it treats it with a more sympathetic and respectful approach.

S&S what strikes me is that everyone's interpretation is different. What is acceptable and what is too much in my mind will be different to your POV, and again slightly different to probably every other posters points of view on here. As such, we have absolutely no idea what 'lightly backed' means to this advertiser. Or when they started the process, their idea of light backing may well not the the same as mine and yours, it may be that this horse has had a lot more work done with it than even you feel comfortable with. Personally, just one look at the photo shows me this horse has has more work than I would agree with.


Not defensive yesterday, just grumpy in general :biggrin3: nothing to do with this thread.

FWIW I don't actually agree with riding weak youngsters. I wouldn't back anything until it was at least 2 1/2 and it would not be fully broken in until 3, then would do no serious work until 4. With a 3yr old once the breaking in is complete, I'd do light schooling eg 20min once a week to teach the basics and the rest hacking mainly in walk. (I was really surprised on a recent thread about what people are doing with their 3yr olds and very few people said they were riding them.)

But it doesn't bother me if other people want to get a lightweight rider to sit on sooner. Or if they use an 'ok but not ideal' saddle to accustom the horse to wearing one.

I didn't click the link for the ad, but there's nothing that bothers me much in the bit quoted in the first post. I don't want to judge the pony's owner as cruel or working the animal hard or being fully broken etc on the basis of what was posted, when there's really no evidence the pony's owner has done any of those things. Just playing devils advocate really.

I agree with whoever said that too much is made of the breaking in process and it should be part of the long term training.
 

Molasses

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This is really interesting seeing folks reactions

How can you read an entire history from a captured moment of a photo and a few words?
I have no problem lying across, introducing tack and basics to a 2 year old or in this case 20months or whatever. It's when basic introductions become 'work' that's where I’d draw my line in the sand.
So I would have no issue with a youngster having a child sit on it's back for 2min and a gentle walk about. Therefore I’ve no issue with this pic. But I would not like to see that youngster worked under that saddle. But how can you tell from a pic and a few words. If i give the benefit of the doubt, then no, i've no issue with the few meagre facts in front of me. A youngster was introduced to a saddle and some child sat in the saddle. So what.
 

MasterBenedict

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I really dont see an issue with the picture/thread, but not really enough info to go on. Not saying I would personally do it at that age, but cant see anything that would make me worry for the horse or childs welfare....

Tbh this horse will probably be far better adjusted than lots out there at the moment.
 

PolarSkye

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This is really interesting seeing folks reactions

How can you read an entire history from a captured moment of a photo and a few words?
I have no problem lying across, introducing tack and basics to a 2 year old or in this case 20months or whatever. It's when basic introductions become 'work' that's where I’d draw my line in the sand.
So I would have no issue with a youngster having a child sit on it's back for 2min and a gentle walk about. Therefore I’ve no issue with this pic. But I would not like to see that youngster worked under that saddle. But how can you tell from a pic and a few words. If i give the benefit of the doubt, then no, i've no issue with the few meagre facts in front of me. A youngster was introduced to a saddle and some child sat in the saddle. So what.

But it's not just about the horse's body - it's also about its brain . . . personally, I'd like to see anything under 3 living in a herd (mares and youngsters) and being regularly handled (feet checked, led a little, seen a few things) and that's IT.

What I see from this picture (and, yes, it is a moment in time) is a confused and very weak youngster wearing a saddle that's too big for it and wondering what the heck is going on.

Slowly and sympathetically produced youngsters have much more of a chance of turning out to be kind, sensible ridden horses.

P
 

Molasses

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But it's not just about the horse's body - it's also about its brain . . . personally, I'd like to see anything under 3 living in a herd (mares and youngsters) and being regularly handled (feet checked, led a little, seen a few things) and that's IT.

What I see from this picture (and, yes, it is a moment in time) is a confused and very weak youngster wearing a saddle that's too big for it and wondering what the heck is going on.

Slowly and sympathetically produced youngsters have much more of a chance of turning out to be kind, sensible ridden horses.

P

Agree, I like to give them time to grow up but I see nothing wrong with spending some time throwing blankets at a baby, leading them in and out of trailers and even (Quel Horror) sitting across.

I stress I wouldn't work a horse this age. But why can't you have both, a free life in a herd, and a few mornings say hi to a bridle and learning halt, walk and then turned back out. There's room in a brain for both.

Yes the pony looks weak and it’s a poorly thought out pic.
But if you gave me an hour, I’d have a nice arena/yard for a background. A blanket/surcingle (not that saddle) and a confident child in a hat, the pony groomed and standing up well accompanied a well written, well explained description. It would be the same elements but a whole new context. And I bet there’d be little or no debate.
 

Meowy Catkin

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One of the reasons I like to buy weanlings or yearlings, is that they are (should be) a blank canvas (basic handling aside). I've had enough of correcting other people's mistakes and it is much harder to correct mistakes than it is to start from the beginning.

If I was buying an ex-racehorse (which I have owned in the past), I would accept that it had been backed and worked young, but I wouldn't think of it as a positive.

Molasses, if she was just wearing a surcingle and had a confident child on board in a hat, I would still pass over the ad.

This is the photo from my gelding's ad. I had been told about him by our rabbit man before I saw the ad and he hadn't done much due to his owner's health problems (he had had good basic handling and had been led down the lane). There was nothing in it to put me off, in fact the lack of doing too much was a positive. OK I couldn't see his conformation from that photo, but I could have asked the seller to send a confo shot if I had wanted one before viewing.

Taj_Amir.jpg


My grey's photos. It was also stated that she had had good basic handling.

Flossytwo.jpg


Flossythree.jpg


Flossysix.jpg


Fundamentally, if I wanted something backed or lightly backed, I'd be looking at older horses.
 

Hackie

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The concept of lightly breaking a horse, using a CHILD, and then breaking it again later to be ridden by an adult is, quite frankly, stupid. Who uses a child to back a horse, why back it now and then again later (break it once, and do it properly - all this lying across their back is just pointless, really, if you are going to break them properly at a later point), and who breaks something at that age? The whole thing, is frankly, moronic and I wouldn't buy a horse from such a bunch of idiots.

Not to mention the stirrups, which are too long for the kid, so obviously someone taller and likely heavier has been riding it, so they don't seem particualrly honest either.

I've got no problem breaking at 2.5, as long as they are only worked lightly, but this is ridiculous and quite pointless - they are sitting on it just cause they can, for their own entertainment?
 
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