I may have done something not entirely reasonable. Help and advice appreciated

Titchy Reindeer

Titchy Reindeer

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I'll start off by saying I may be a bit of an idiot, but hopefully this will all work out.

I have told my neighbour and friend (let's call her M to make my life easier) that I will take on her dog for an indeterminate amount of time. He is a 4yo terrier type dog who has started biting frequently and badly enough that she's considering PTS.

Dogs background as I know it is that he was bought as a puppy by a friend of a friend of M's. She kept him in an apartment in Paris and didn't exercise him beyond going for a quick pee and a poo. As far as I know, she didn't do anything with him and he got destructive and noisy to the point where the neighbours complained and she needed to rehome him. This was about 2 years ago, when the dog was 2yo. In steps M, a lovely woman who loves her animals but is not always sensible with them and is a bit of a hoarder. She finds out this dog, that previous owner thought was castrated wasn't in fact castrated. He also had a retained testicle, so previous owner paid for the operation and M brought him down to her holiday home where I met him.
They considered rehoming him shortly after that because he was chasing the elderly cat but decided to give it a go, took him to see a behaviouralist vet and to dog club. He is insecure around most other dogs, shows high resource guarding whether that's food or attention. He is also insecure in many human environments, small children in particular are complicated for him to handle. Also any form of noise of movement he isn't used to.
He has now bitten multiple people including M's husband, several of her guest and tradesmen. The bites leave cuts / bruises and tear clothes.
My evaluation of him is that he is an intelligent, active, little dog. Lacking socialisation both to other dogs, humans and humans weird habits and stuff. I think resource guarding and insecurity are his biggest issues.
His current environment is chaotic, with stuff, animals (including dogs) coming and going from the home, and lots of guests in and out, along with owners that struggle with consistency in their approach to him and in environment management.

I plan to take him on this weekend or beginning of next week (I would like Liberty to have finished her season first as she is flirting with any male canine and being shirty with any female canine at the minute - and I would rather not make my life extra difficult). Tentative plan is to get T (the terrier) a crate, a muzzle and a house line and train him to use them. I plan on trying to start by fulfilling his exercise and brain use needs, get him appropriate objects to chew on and teaching him an off switch. I'm thinking crated when I'm not around as well as separate from my two if unsupervised (I will be doing the introductions to my two individually and in a neutral place), no contact with outside people until he his showing improvement and definitely NO contact whatsoever with my nephew and niece. I was thinking basic obedience training and teaching middle as a safe space. Once that's done, see if I can gradually habituate him to more "stuff".

For context, I live alone with my two dogs, Monster and Liberty. My house is large, so plenty of space for separating out if / when necessary. Crates, puppy pens and baby gates will be used. I have a fenced garden (there are chickens in there, but chickens in their pen if dogs in the garden) and an orchard I can use for training (fenced but not for small terriers). I live near the end of the village with no other dogs living in the houses between me and the very quiet white lanes.

Any advice or suggestions would be welcome. I've not had a terrier before and not a biter either.
 
Things to make him think/work:

Food/treat dispensing toys, snuffle mats, lickimats, stuffed kongs, put food in egg boxes, in toilet/kitchen rolls with the end turned over or a bit of paper stuffed stuffed in the ends, in boxes filled with waste paper, in muffin tins with a ball over each 'cup', interactive toys such as Nina Ottosson, teach tricks, play the shell game, give him a natural chew like beef nose or pigs ear, wrap it paper that he has to tear off, this fulfils part of the predatory sequence.
 
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skinnydipper said:
I'm sure you already plan to separate at mealtimes and when given a chew.
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Yes, thank you I forgot to mention it. He will be in a different room at mealtimes, though I suspect most of his food will be coming straight from my hand for a while a he is already chubby and has a lot to learn. I normally give chews when I'm going out, so he will have his in his crate that I plan to put in a separate room from my two at first. I'll see if I graduate to moving into the same room with crate in puppy playpen at a later date.
 
skinnydipper said:
Things to make him think/work:

Food/treat dispensing toys, snuffle mats, lickimats, stuffed kongs, put food in egg boxes, in toilet/kitchen rolls with the end turned over or a bit of paper stuffed stuffed in the ends, in boxes filled with waste paper, in muffin tins with a ball over each 'cup', interactive toys such as Nina Ottosson, teach tricks, play the shell game, give him a natural chew like beef nose or pigs ear, wrap it paper that he has to tear off, this fulfils part of the prey sequence.
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Thanks for all the suggestions, I was thinking kongs (I need to get some smaller ones), toilet rolls (I have a whole collection just for such an occasion) and natural chews. I will get him an antler as well as they tend to last longer and my two love them. I have an interactive toy somewhere as well, so I may as well dust it off and use it. I don't like licky mats as Libety prefers to chew them to licking them.
 
skinnydipper said:
Good luck, TP. He couldn't be in better hands.
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Thank you. I see it as I can't make his situation any worse as he is already facing PTS, but hopefully I can make it an awful lot better. So T has nothing to lose and everything to gain, I just hope I'm up to it.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Just be aware that with so many bites, it will probably be a patch-up job and not a total cure and you will have to be very vigilant for the rest of his life.
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Thank you. This is good to know, even if I wish it wasn't the case. That's why the muzzle is high up on my priorities list. It's such a shame, he's a lovely little dog and he's been totally messed up by well meaning but ultimately clueless people.
 
We’ve had a few dogs with difficult backgrounds/problems over the years, although never a biter. Exercise, and plenty of it, was one of the biggest fixes. And routine/boundaries. Plus coming into a house with happy, established dogs helped. You have to keep in mind that he will need to decompress, he’s not had a great start. But it’s amazing what dogs come through.
 
Honey08 said:
We’ve had a few dogs with difficult backgrounds/problems over the years, although never a biter. Exercise, and plenty of it, was one of the biggest fixes. And routine/boundaries. Plus coming into a house with happy, established dogs helped. You have to keep in mind that he will need to decompress, he’s not had a great start. But it’s amazing what dogs come through.
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My two seem happy enough to me and are well settled in the house. Their biggest draw back in relation to T is that they're also both high energy and get very OTT when playing, which will not be helpful for him, so I'm thinking possibly only let him in the garden supervised with one at a time at first, to cut any play short before it degenerates.
I will keep in mind that he needs to decompress and give him the time to do so. He does already know me and like me, so hopefully that will help and him and my two know each other by scent.
 
Titchy Pony said:
My two seem happy enough to me and are well settled in the house. Their biggest draw back in relation to T is that they're also both high energy and get very OTT when playing, which will not be helpful for him, so I'm thinking possibly only let him in the garden supervised with one at a time at first, to cut any play short before it degenerates.
I will keep in mind that he needs to decompress and give him the time to do so. He does already know me and like me, so hopefully that will help and him and my two know each other by scent.
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I think you're doing a wonderful thing.

Really hope it works out for you xx
 
I have retrained two not to bite. Neither was ever again allowed in a chaotic environment or around unfamiliar, not well trained children who might move quickly or touch without warning. That said, the training held and there were no further incidents into old age and eventual end of life. One had been insecure and snappy when touched/walked past, one resource guarded in an adult only home.

I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope it goes well!
 
Given that you have no experience working with a dog with a bite history, my advice would be to contact a behaviourist/trainer. Realistically, the vast majority of posters on this forum (myself included!) are not qualified* to be giving any advice on this topic, especially given the potential danger to you and your dogs.

Muzzle training would be my no1 priority. Also, personally, I would avoid exercises that tap into the predatory sequence/prey drive. I know it’s a contentious topic (fulfilling natural urges vs encouraging them), but the last thing this dog needs is prey drive to be getting him over-aroused. (ETA: But that's just my opinion, not advice.)

(*ETA = by which I don't necessarily mean formal qualifications, I mean experience training - and helping owners train - a variety of resource guarders and dogs with bite histories.)
 
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stangs said:
Given that you have no experience working with a dog with a bite history, my advice would be to contact a behaviourist/trainer. Realistically, the vast majority of posters on this forum (myself included!) are not qualified to be giving any advice on this topic, especially given the potential danger to you and your dogs.

Muzzle training would be my no1 priority. Also, personally, I would avoid exercises that tap into the predatory sequence/prey drive. I know it’s a contentious topic (fulfilling natural urges vs encouraging them), but the last thing this dog needs is prey drive to be getting him over-aroused.
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You are advising TP not take the advice offered by unqualified people and then you give advice as an unqualified person 🤷‍♀️

stangs said:
Also, personally, I would avoid exercises that tap into the predatory sequence/prey drive. I know it’s a contentious topic (fulfilling natural urges vs encouraging them), but the last thing this dog needs is prey drive to be getting him over-aroused.
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Canine enrichment. It's a game that I'm sure a terrier would enjoy.

Have you seen a dog playing this game? No, I didn't think so. My dog enjoys ripping off the paper then settles down to sleep when she has enjoyed the chew.. Chewing is stress relief for dogs.
 
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Amymay Again said:
I think you're doing a wonderful thing.

Really hope it works out for you xx
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maya2008 said:
I have retrained two not to bite. Neither was ever again allowed in a chaotic environment or around unfamiliar, not well trained children who might move quickly or touch without warning. That said, the training held and there were no further incidents into old age and eventual end of life. One had been insecure and snappy when touched/walked past, one resource guarded in an adult only home.

I wish you all the luck in the world. I hope it goes well!
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Thank you both very much.
@maya2008, it is good to hear that success is possible with careful management.
 
rara007 said:
You’re braver than me..! There’s lots of info about suitable muzzles on Facebook. If he’s not used to wearing one that’s likely to be a mid term training project with a terrier type.
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I think I may be walking that fine line between bravery and stupidity! I wouldn't do it for just any dog, but I'm rather attached to this one and want to give him a chance. Also, M will be paying for his keep (food, vets, etc..) at least for now, as I really can't afford another dog just at the minute.

I was planning on getting him a baskerville type muzzle (at least it's what they're called over here in France), it's what Monster is trained to wear and I need to get one for Liberty as well (I like my dogs to be muzzle trained as it can always become necessary, even if it's just for following the rules if I ever take them on a train). Yes it will probably take a bit of time to train muzzle wearing correctly, but in the mean time he can be separated from visitors in a different room and on lead if off the property (very quiet around here).
 
stangs said:
Given that you have no experience working with a dog with a bite history, my advice would be to contact a behaviourist/trainer. Realistically, the vast majority of posters on this forum (myself included!) are not qualified to be giving any advice on this topic, especially given the potential danger to you and your dogs.

Muzzle training would be my no1 priority. Also, personally, I would avoid exercises that tap into the predatory sequence/prey drive. I know it’s a contentious topic (fulfilling natural urges vs encouraging them), but the last thing this dog needs is prey drive to be getting him over-aroused.
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A trainer would be a good idea, if I could find one I could trust to not do anything stupid, I don't think many are properly qualified around here and even fewer who actually understand what they're talking about. I will be reaching out to all my doggy contacts to see if they can recommend someone.
 
and I have personal experience of dogs, having owned and lived with 11 dogs of various breeds and temperaments, all but 1 adopted/rehomed. Some with challenging behaviour initially.
 
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rara007 said:
If he’s not used to wearing [a muzzle] that’s likely to be a mid term training project with a terrier type.
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Yes....I can't speak to dogs with challenging behaviour but as the owner of a terrier, I would say to allow a bit more time than you might with a softer natured breed - keep persevering with the boundaries and consistency, and *eventually* it will pay off. But it can take what feels like a LONG time. That's just terriers for you, though. It doesn't necessarily mean you're doing anything wrong. Oh and fencing....it sounds like you're already well aware that "terrier fenced" and "dog fenced" can be slightly different things!

Very best of luck with him, he sounds like a sweet dog who could have a safe happy life in the right home. You're very kind.
 
skinnydipper said:
and I have personal experience of dogs, having owned and lived with 11 dogs of various breeds and temperaments, all but 1 adopted/rehomed. Some with challenging behaviour initially.
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That's great news, SD. I'm so happy for you that you've owned 11 dogs.

I'm sure your personal experience means you appreciate how a mastiff's response to a game might differ to that of an unsocialised terrier with a bite history; how much care needs to be taken around resource guarders, let alone ones with bite histories; and how there's a difference between managing a dog you own and giving advice on the management of a dog you have never seen and do not have to live with.
 
stangs said:
That's great news, SD. I'm so happy for you that you've owned 11 dogs.

I'm sure your personal experience means you appreciate how a mastiff's response to a game might differ to that of an unsocialised terrier with a bite history; how much care needs to be taken around resource guarders, let alone ones with bite histories; and how there's a difference between managing a dog you own and giving advice on the management of a dog you have never seen and do not have to live with.
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I’ve had terriers including a rescue that was a resource guarder, who lived here with 7 other dogs.

How about you? What breeds have you owned? What behavioural problems did they come with?

Have you ever owned a dog or does all your theory come from books?

But let’s not continue to ruin TP’s thread.
 
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CorvusCorax said:
I don't have any formal qualifications but I do have a performance record and I know a *lot* about biting 🤣
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Actually, when I wrote properly qualified, I meant someone with experience to back up the flimsy bit of paper you need over here to call yourself a professional dog trainer (you don't even need a flimsy bit of paper to call yourself a behaviourist!). I'm not actually bothered about formal qualifications for this area (apart from you need a minimum to be an insured professional), I'd rather have experience and "dog sense".
The "don't know what they're talking about" is brought on by a particular bugbear of mine, which is dog trainers saying they only use positive training methods and seem to think that not hitting your dog qualifies in itself as positive.

PS when did you last bite someone?
 
druid said:
Check your public liability insurance/home insurance - some policies are invalid if you knowingly own a dog with a bite history.

I'd agree with muzzle training being the most important thing to get done well
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Good point. I've just checked and it seems as long as the animal is legally owned / not a categorised dog, it's fine for my insurance.
 
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