I need some advice.. it's a long story!

Poulshu

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Well, if you are reading this, you know I am in need of some advice. I would like suggestions, comments, and anything else you can think of.

To start with, I've not dealt with horse lameness or any riding issues before. I've ridden Quarter Horses most of my life. They've always been in a healthy condition and been sound all the time I've owned them. I rode western mostly, and just began dabbling into english to learn the ins and outs of jumping.

I purchased a horse from another state that is an off the track Thoroughbred. He raced for 7 years, was pulled off the track and was owned by another girl who retrained him to do hunter/jumper type riding for about 6 years. (This is the story I was told) This previous owner had him in heavy training/showing for 4-5 years and for the last year and a half before I purchased him, she had him in a small field with no grass (but hay for feeding) and only a miniature for company. She was riding no more than once a week, if that, due to her busy schedule. He lost a lot of topline muscle from his withers to his hips and was about 100 lbs underweight. I knew when I bought him I would have to put some weight and slow building work to get his topline built back up and his muscle build back.

When we got him to the barn we placed him on joint supplements (he is 14 after all, and just getting back into work), Cocosoya for extra protein, and Amplify for extra weight and more nutrition within the first week.

Fast forward two weeks:
He had his first visit with the farrier who said his feet couldn't be trimmed as there wasn't much growth. So he rasped them as best as he could (his feet were very chipped up from being in a frozen mud field) and put shoes on the front feet. Within a week he pulled a shoe and came up with a bruised heel. The shoe was replaced and once he was better, we continued our rides and exercise.

Within the next 2 weeks we noticed he was having some wither discomfort. So we changed the saddle pads to accommodate his high withers and help everything fit better. We also started to notice he showed discomfort when brushing from his shoulders to his hips and when tightening the girth. (My trainer suggested ulcers were the problem) We wormed him with zimectrin and also had his teeth floated (which were needed done desperately). This certainly helped to make him feel better as he was much more energetic in riding and in his turnout playtime.

We continued to ride and take lessons with my trainer who helped me work towards building his hind end muscles and his topline as he was lacking in both. We were doing very well with everything until about 3 weeks ago.

I came down with a bout of some nasty flu and was out of riding commission for about a week. He had daily turn out and exercise. The next week when we proceeded to ride again, my trainer pulled me off of him due to severe back end weakness. He was very off and pulling his head to the left side to compensate as I rode. She also noticed lots of pain across his back from withers to hip, which he had not shown the week before. She suggested getting his hocks injected by the vet. She also suggested that we possibly look into something neurological as his topline wasn't developing as well, and he was about 50/50 for neurological symptoms. We called the vet out to have him examined.

He was placed on stall rest with hand walking and light turnout by myself and my trainer. When the vet came out to see him, we asked him to assess his lameness and back-end weakness. He felt down his legs and where we thought he would feel his hocks and how dry they felt, he instead felt his cannon had lots of heat and swelling. This had not been the problem we felt before as we felt his legs down completely each day. The vet said it could be a suspension ligament or a torn splint. He didn't think he was EPM or neurological positive, just that he had back end weakness. He dosed him with bute and surpass and complete stall rest with walks for 7-10 days. We started the surpass that evening, and buted in the morning. When I came out the next day, the swelling/heat was completely gone in the cannon and had moved to his ankle, but wasn't nearly as hot as the cannon. The next day all swelling and heat was gone. We continued the treatment but his cannon continued to stay cold with plenty of walks and the bute/surpass daily.

Yesterday, (we're getting closer to the end!) we had another farrier out who my trainer has used for a long time. I asked him to look at my horse as I really trust her judgement. He stated that his front feet were at a 5 degree difference. (He used an analogy of a human in a high heel and a flip flop) He even stated that the trimming/rasping that the other farrier did was not good at all. (Certainly won't be using him again... lol) He also checked his back for pain (which he's been on stall rest for almost 2 weeks at this point) and he was sore all the way down. He said it was likely a result of the difference in his angles.

Our future plans consist of having his feet done asap, having the vet back out to check him and inject his hocks if he thinks that will still be the case, and then having a chiropractor out possibly if his back doesn't regain it's strength and reduced tenderness.

In the mean time, we're ceasing the surpass and bute for a few days to see if his legs start to swell again. If they don't, then we are going to put him under light exercise to see if his pain returns. In the time of this process, we have the farrier and vet both coming to check/work on him.

If anyone has any suggestions, ideas, or theories, please don't hesitate to let me know. I certainly want the right thing for my horse and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him better. I want the knowledge so I can help him and myself.
 
Golly, your horse is having a tough time. It must be very worrying.

It might be helpful if you could post some photos of his hooves and a video of him moving.

I think that you are doing the right thing getting the experts to look at him and I hope that you get a diagnosis with a good prognosis.

Sorry that i couldn't be of any help, but I really hope that he gets better.
 
Thanks. We're trying everything we can. I will try to get some photos of his topline, hooves, and a video of him moving some tomorrow or this weekend when we start the minor exercise.
 
Sorry posted too early!

Not sure what to suggest really but do you have physio or chiropractor type people that could help?

What sort of surfaces do you work on?
 
We have chiropractors around, but my trainer doesn't have much faith in them. But if it makes him comfortable, I'd like to do that.

He has a matted stall and we have concrete aisles and sand arenas.
 
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Just a quick point, you mention he had a sore back, sore withers and wasn't liking being tacked up or being groomed along his back or shoulders
you changed the saddle pad. Has the saddle been properly fitted by a professinal? And not just a glance over by the instructor, as can make a huge difference.

I hope you can get to the boom of it, and that he makes a strong and speedy recovery
 
It hasn't, but if things don't clear up with his back that could be another option to try. I'm more worried about the other problems at the moment but will certainly keep that in mind! Maybe try some bareback riding or a riding pad. Thank you for the advice and well wishes!
 
Not sure if you said but was the horse in work before you got him? Slow and steady is needed when bringing any horse into work and even more important as they get older.

I would be getting the feet balanced, getting body work and getting a professional to check your saddle.

If I read it right the horse has been with you for 4 weeks def not enough time to build top line, but enough time for compensatory pain to arise - horse caries itself differently and ends up with pain in other areas. If the saddle doesn't fit which if you need to change pads it prob doesn't then it will just compound the issue. Esp if work has been increased quickly muscles will be sore.

Box rest seems odd to me as movement is best for most injuries.

Also while you may trust your trainer do not take everything as gospel and do your own research etc they may be at the highest level but that does not mean they know everything especially as horses are indivuals and you spend the most time with your horse.
 
He was not in consistent work. We started slow with walk/trot and easy gentle legging up. Nothing super strenuous.

The feet are the first thing being done. Then the vet is coming back out to watch for any signs of lameness.

The horse has actually been with me for 9+ weeks. He hasn't put on much topline in that time but has brought on some of the weight he needed. His ribs no longer show under his coat but he still has the lack of definition.

We are certainly taking things slow and easy as he's older and needs more time to get back into shape. He's not being rushed or being asked to do too much too fast.

The box rest was prescribed by the vet. But we are also doing daily walks to stretch him and keep him from going stir-crazy.

I am also doing my own research as you said. I trust my trainer, and so far she hasn't pointed me in the wrong direction. But as you said, I don't treat it as the gospel. I just appreciate her knowledge where mine lacks.
 
I'd take him out of ridden work completely,
He does need some regular chiro, no offence but I've never heard of a trainer who doesn't have faith in their practice, think how good a massage feels? I use sports massage therapists for mine, but then they generally need loosening up, I suspect your horse needs more than this, but my mares head carriage dropped so much just after one session... It does work I can show you photos to prove it and it will make him more comfortable.
The farrier sounds a decent chap, stick with him, get the feet sorted, the weight sorted and a few decent chiro visits to tweak as the feet are balanced, gentle excercise without a rider or tack, lunging, walking in hand, free schooling, to build up the muscles and their strength.

Once the horse is level, loosened up, carrying the correct weight and building up a bit of muscle, get tack re fitted, then get on, hack out... No schooling for a good couple of months then go into the school and start some work... Take it from there.

Diet wise, yes a joint supplement is fab, then I'd consider something like linseed meal, and a fibre chaff for weight gain. Don't rule out ulcers, these are pretty common in tb ex racers, with a hi fibre diet with the linseed you are addressing weight and condition whilst feeding the best type of diet to any horse, steer clear of sugar... This is not a good look for an egus horse. If ulcers are suspected, consider worm counts before reaching for wormers and avoid bute if possible... It aggravates the situation.

Definitely stop ridden work and get him looking and feeling like a healthy horse before considering getting back on.

Poor wee chap sounds like he is lucky to have someone willing to get to the bottom of the issue, but needs tlc to get there. Also leg injuries... Often the best remedy is 6 months turn away at pasture... Complete rest to let nature do what nature does best.
 
It sounds like it's difficult to tell what is causing the sensitivity to being groomed or the apparent weakness in the hind end.

If it was my horse, I'd be thinking:

- feet: I'd read up more on how horse's feet should look (easy enough to look online at barefoot advocates like Pete Ramey, and/or to buy farrier textbooks from Amazon), and use that along with others thoughts to decide which farrier to use. Worth keeping photos of the feet too (including a photo from the side of the whole horse so you can see how the horse is choosing to stand), so that you can see whether things are improving or worsening each time

- diet: I would definitely want the horse on a good vitamin/mineral supplement and to ensure that there was enough good quality protein in the diet. In the UK we have feed company nutritionists who we can contact for free advice on a horse's diet - maybe there's something similar over there?

- vet stuff: given that it doesn't seem clear cut just what is causing the problems, I'd ask for a comprehensive blood test including muscle and liver enzymes as well as ACTH. Especially given the horse's age (at least 14 or 15), then Cushing's becomes a possibility and could easily account for loss of topline, so the ACTH would be useful for that. Muscle pain/damage could account for discomfort being groomed, as could liver problems. Besides which, a complete blood might also show up if there's any infection, or otherwise point to something in particular.

And at that point, I'd review the results and decide the next stage.

Good luck however you proceed.

Sarah
 
I'd take him out of ridden work completely,
He does need some regular chiro, no offence but I've never heard of a trainer who doesn't have faith in their practice, think how good a massage feels? I use sports massage therapists for mine, but then they generally need loosening up, I suspect your horse needs more than this, but my mares head carriage dropped so much just after one session... It does work I can show you photos to prove it and it will make him more comfortable.
The farrier sounds a decent chap, stick with him, get the feet sorted, the weight sorted and a few decent chiro visits to tweak as the feet are balanced, gentle excercise without a rider or tack, lunging, walking in hand, free schooling, to build up the muscles and their strength.

Once the horse is level, loosened up, carrying the correct weight and building up a bit of muscle, get tack re fitted, then get on, hack out... No schooling for a good couple of months then go into the school and start some work... Take it from there.

Diet wise, yes a joint supplement is fab, then I'd consider something like linseed meal, and a fibre chaff for weight gain. Don't rule out ulcers, these are pretty common in tb ex racers, with a hi fibre diet with the linseed you are addressing weight and condition whilst feeding the best type of diet to any horse, steer clear of sugar... This is not a good look for an egus horse. If ulcers are suspected, consider worm counts before reaching for wormers and avoid bute if possible... It aggravates the situation.

Definitely stop ridden work and get him looking and feeling like a healthy horse before considering getting back on.

Poor wee chap sounds like he is lucky to have someone willing to get to the bottom of the issue, but needs tlc to get there. Also leg injuries... Often the best remedy is 6 months turn away at pasture... Complete rest to let nature do what nature does best.

Excellent advice here from Queenbee. I also think you should have the saddle properly fitted.

The symptoms you describe are indicative of several possible conditions. Kissing spines being one. This often presents alongside hock and foot problems.

Foot imbalance can cause serious skeletal problems in the horse too, so I am pleased this is being addressed.

Gastric ulcers, as QB has said, are common in ex racers and soreness in the areas you describe is very typical of the symptoms. I would get him on some abprazole from www.abler.com as soon as possible. Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Thank you everyone for your advice! It's nice to have such a knowledgeable community around.

His feet are the first thing I am concerned about as this could have started ALL of the problems. It's like a house. You need a good foundation to begin the rest of the house work. Without that, it will all fall apart. Their feet are a huge part of that!

The back end weakness is very likely from his lack of exercise and not being asked to carry himself with his back end when being exercised.

I also believe that the ulcers are very likely. I need to get some ulcer-guard, gastro-guard, or the abprozole for him to make him feel better and see if it helps at all.

We are going to put him on light lunging exercise (walk trot for 10-15 minutes a day) to see how his cannon does. The rest will be light turnout with plenty of stall rest.

As far as his diet goes, he's getting plenty of nutrients and vitamins. He's on lots of good supplements and has shown some good improvement in his coat and the rest of his body. Unfortunately being on stall rest for two weeks has made his muscle mass go down quite a bit. His back seemed better today, especially with minimal exercise. A little wither pain, but not much else was sore.

If you have any specific questions, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm sure there are parts that I've left out that may be key parts of the story, but I will try to answer anything I can.

Thanks so much everyone! Will get some pictures up this weekend hopefully.
 
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