I really don't like bits, but I love dressage!

[Shysmum]

I only ride bitless now, so that rules us out of showing, even at local level.

 

[amandap]

It is a culture that has traditionally evolved around the use of the bit. I see it as both. We need a bit so how can we use it to get the horse to do what we wish ie. train the horse to do as we wish.

I don't think I worded that very well. In my view, it is a tradition that is based on the cultural belief that bits are required.

 

[shadowboy]

I've never come accross a horse that wouldn't accept a bit so I have no real experience of bit less riding. However, I see bit less as just another bridle aid and therefore I see it just as using a gag or Pelham etc - if they are not to be permitted then the bitless bridle also should remain out of competition. One could argue that it would have an advantage over a snaffle rider just like the effect of the pressure and curb of a Pelham so I guess it just keep everyone fair and even.

I like dressage and have dabbled at prelim and novice BD and I suppose I could see them introducing a 'bitless' class where the rider could not qualify or earn points etc but the point of dressage is the soft and accepting manner in which all aids are used which includes the bit. It just wouldn't work I don't think without a bit......

 

[ihatework]

I don't think I worded that very well. In my view, it is a tradition that is based on the cultural belief that bits are required.

It is an interesting thread and nice to see one being debated in a civil manner!

FWIW I answered 'I don't know'.

In response to the above quote, and on one hand why I feel bitless shouldn't be introduced for competitive dressage is that dressage is a world wide sport with FEI directives that filter down to national bodies. This has evolved over may years into what it is today and a core part of that is training a horse using a bit. This isn't as simple as a very small body of people wanting to go bitless and the entire structure rolling over to accomodate them.

What I am not saying is that you need/must use a bit to train a horse well. There will be multiple examples of bitless horses well schooled.

On a personal level I actually don't really care if truth be told. If someone wants to ride bitless then if there were up against me in competition I wouldn't mind and would leave the judge to mark both combinations on the merits in front of them. TBH though this really is not going to happen in the near future, FEI and national bodies are not going to go out of their way to amending ruling to suit a tiny minority that shout loudly.

For bitless enthusiasts then they need to get together and create their own organisation if they feel there is sufficient demand for bitless dressage. I know there was some effort last year with a small competition held (called a championship!). If the demand is there then I wish bitless competitors the very best, and over time who knows - maybe it will build in substance and align with BD in someway?

 

[doriangrey]

I voted yes, but realistically what type of bitless would you compare to a snaffle for instance - never mind a double bridle. Maybe it shouldn't be acceptance of the bit but acceptance of the hands. Might be too simplistic a view.

 

[Pigeon]

Yes, I think so - I HAVE seen horses who are relaxed and/or collected without a bit (or a bridle, for that matter), maybe not to GP standard, but much better than my horse could ever go, and he does well enough at his level.

Especially at the lower levels, I'd rather see someone sawing on a non-mechanical bitless bridle than a mouth. Even if they only allowed it HC, that would be enough for me.

 

[Wagtail]

This horse looks pretty engaged and through to me!

http://youtu.be/A5XUq56P_I0

That's a fab illustration of how bitless riding can be. I think people who are set against it probably just haven't experienced it properly.

However, I can see how the practicalities could make it difficult to change the system. It could get very complicated. I would love to see it introduced at some level though so that people who want to compete, but can't because they have a horse that doesn't like bits, or because they don't agree with the use of bits, can compete in dressage.

 

[Wagtail]

.

Over the years discussing this subject online, experienced dressage riders have argued and even perhaps convinced me (a non dressage rider) you can't get the same "throughness", work and subtle communication without the bit. They cite great bitless work as having been initially achieved with the bit.

With my mare it was the opposite. I taught her everything up to medium level without a bit and then introduced the bit once I found one she was comfortable in. I still much preferred the way she felt without a bit.

 

[Wagtail]

Good thread, by the way Wagtail It is the politest, as well as the most informed and interesting of the debates on bit vs bitless in competitions that I've seen

I was just thinking how excellent all the replies have been and how well argued from both sides. Really nice to see!

 

[Hoof_Prints]

Yes they should be allowed, however it would take a bit of working out as to which ones would be the equivalent of a snaffle and double bridle, a "stronger" bitless bridle should not be used where there is a limit on dressage legal bits. I guess a simple way would be to only allow those that do not use poll pressure as a means of control eg. side pull action for lower level, I have no experience with double bridles and do not feel qualified to comment on that! Yes it would have a different action, and therefore the rider's decision to school the horse in a bitless bridle- a horse obviously can't work "on the bit" but it could certainly work " on the contact" and correctly engaged through the back. My horse hates bitless ridden work, but put him on the lunge and without any pressure from a bit he will work very correctly and in a lovely shape as he has been schooled to use and build the correct muscles so I do not believe for a moment that a horse cannot be engaged in a bitless bridle.

 

[GinaGeo]

It's horses for courses isn't it. I rode my boy in a hackamore recently and it was completely too strong for him. Even throwing away the contact completely he remained completely overbent, yet strong in it. In his lozenge loose ring snaffles he's not like this at all. Soft, forward and taking the contact.

I understand what you mean about as a rider preferring certain contacts. I don't like the feel of a horse in a gag/hanging cheek or any type of noseband which closes the mouth. Other people do. I don't like the blunt feel bitless bridles give. You do. Each to their own.

FYI I think there is an organisation for bitless dressage. Although I can't find it online - I'm sure I've read about it!

 

[Scarlett]

I thought the more acurate translation of the dressage rules was 'acceptance of the hand' not specifically the bit?

Personally I ride bitted and bitless, I much prefer bitless and I have found that bitless work greatly improves their bitted work. I ride in a sidepull or in a Micklem as a sidepull, and occasionally a hackamore if I am doing fast stuff. My horses work up into the hand, are straighter, softer and I can move them about laterally and keep them softer in their necks than when bitted. I find the feel much nicer, there is a 'flow' to the contact which is probably because I have a softer arm bitless. I find that the people who say you can't get a correct connection bitless have never actually tried it

I guess if you want to do dressage to a reasonably high level it may not be for you but I ride for the enjoyment and enjoy experimenting with things like this. I don't see why certain bitless bridles, I'd say no bridles where anything tightens ie hackamore or crossunder, couldnt be permissable, even if just at lower levels. If a judge doesn't feel the horse is 'correct' then the judge can mark the test down accordingly, simple! I take pride in my horses being as correct as they can even if they are not dressage stars and I am certain bitless work has helped with that.

Like everything its a tool to keep and use as and when you need it. You should never close your mind to anything with horses, theres always one out there that will prove you wrong!

IIRC bitless bridles are allowed at lower levels in Holland at affiliated level, and I think another country has followed suit recently. A lot of riding clubs will allow you to compete bitless if you ask.

 

[Nicnac]

Define 'Bitless'

Are we talking hackamore with long shanks; short shanks; reins attached to noseband; headcollar? I think there are too many variables and if, for example, hackamores with short shanks are allowed then there may be those who start pushing for long shanks or some other form of bitless.

Where does it stop? Interesting discussion.

 

[Scarlett]

Define 'Bitless'

Are we talking hackamore with long shanks; short shanks; reins attached to noseband; headcollar? I think there are too many variables and if, for example, hackamores with short shanks are allowed then there may be those who start pushing for long shanks or some other form of bitless.

Where does it stop? Interesting discussion.

Personally I think it would need to just be a sidepull. You can't use a bit with leverage so you shouldnt be able to use a bridle that tightens anywhere. There are plenty of simple, traditional looking sidepull bridles available that wouldnt spoil the 'look', though with the blingy, patent monstrosities you see in dressage I'm not sure that really matters....

 

[blitznbobs]

Perhaps there ought to be a different class like open, restricted and bitless...

 

[horsemad32]

Crossunder bitless bridles give similar 'brakes' to a snaffle. Hackamores are similar to a pelham etc as have a curb and poll pressure, so I don't think they should be allowed. I can ride Prelim-Medium movements in a bitless just as well as with a bit. You'd never tell in a video unless you zoomed in on the horse's mouth. Most of the aids come from the seat/leg anyway, you're only asking for flexion (lateral/longitudinal) with the bridle.