I Really Need some help, is it her Bit? Noseband?

[ElliePippa]

Any suggestions on a bit/noseband combination etc?
Pippa is ridden in a gag atm, and is fine hacking + schooling, but when we jump in the school she carries her head really high when up too the jump, therefore not getting any height or bascule over the fence.
Her tongue is quite large-dont know if that makes a difference....
Anyway, when we are riding cross country, she does the oppposite...
when you tries to apply any contact with the reins, she throws her head down and shakes off the contact-its pretty impossible to stop her!, She will go with her head right down towards the jump-this again making her jump it to the side or scramble over it

This is a really long post-I know, but im really at a loss for whats the matter,
Some sort of barbequed treat if you get this far

Thankyou in advance!
x

 

[vikkiandmonica]

It sounds to me like it is her bit, so when you apply a contact, to collect her into the jumps, which you would prehaps not do when schooling, she is throwing her head, or throwing it down and shaking her head to get you off her mouth?

 

[MrsMozart]

Well, I've just eaten, but I could nibble on a little something

Try a Pelham (with a port) jumping, should help to bring her head down. Cavesson noseband unless opens mouth or crosses jaw.

Don't know re. cross-country

Hate to be a bore, but teeth et al done?

 

[ElliePippa]

Its wierd really,
When im out XC she throws her head down (and wiggles it) when your trying to slow her back to trot,
But when its SJ in an arena, and you try to collect her towards a jump, it goes up and her mouth opens

*sigh*

 

[ElliePippa]

yep teeth done recntly, probably should get saddler to check fit, however its made to measure etc

 

[MrsMozart]

Huh, don't get me started on made-to-measure saddles

. Ho hum.

If mouth opens, either a drop noseband or a grackle, depending on bit

What does your instructor say?

 

[ElliePippa]

Lol, It came with her,

just changed instructors but will be having lesson with new one soon so could ask then....

 

[Honeypots]

If she has a thick tongue she could be objecting to the nutcracker actoin of a single joint (assuming that is what you are using) as she may not have alot of room in her mouth. If you then clamp her mouth shut you could make matters worse.
Could you perhaps try her in a french link or lozenge.

A gag will encourage her head up so I would change to a pelham (if you need brakes) or a simple snaffle if not or maybe use 2 reins so you have the best of both worlds..

 

[vikkiandmonica]

I would suggest a snaffle, because I think that if she is throwing her head and trying to shake off the contact, then she doesn't like the pressure in her mouth, so a stronger bit could make her worse?

 

[Tnavas]

For Show Jumping - First of all take her out of the gag - the bit is designed to lift the horses head, not slow it down! This is why you are having problems with the head too high.
It sounds like a Kimblewick, an Uxeter or a Pelham (with roundings) would be the right sort of bit for your horse.
Go for one with a 'Cambridge' mouthpiece. (A small port) This sits the bit nicely on the bars. Make sure that when you fit the curb chain that you take it through the rings of the bit - NOT behind it. This will then place the curb chain in the correct place - in the chin groove and not on the thin edges of the jawbone.

Normally I would say school, school, school to improve performance. For cross country I think a Waterford would suit her. With the waterford use a Grackle noseband and with the Pelham/Kimblewick/Uxeter you will need to use a cavesson.

 

[ElliePippa]

Forgot to add, One time took her round XC in a loose-ring snaffle, and she was awful, we were running in to other riders and gettin the most evil looks, i couldnt stop her with her head down + shaking

 

[MrsMozart]

Not use the Pelham as a stronger bit (no stronger than a gag!). Can be used beautifully lightly - ride wiht two reins though.

Snaffle - nutcracker action. Pelham - either straight bar, or lozenge: gives room for big tongue.

 

[Cliqmo]

IMO it definitely sounds like she is unhappy in the mouth. The gag action works on poll and mouth pressure so some horses will drop their head to it and others will lift (it sounds as though your mare does both!) To establish a better alternative I have a few quick questions:-

How thick is the mouthpiece you currently use?

What type of mouthpiece is it? (snaffle, french link, waterford)

Does she throw her head up or down most frequently? Eg if you are schooling and she objects to the contact does her head go up or down first?

 

[ElliePippa]

the gag is a single jointed, and its quite a fat mouthpeice to be honest...
Would you therefore recommend me use a different bit for different disiplines?

 

[ElliePippa]

if im just schooling, shes absolutely perfect, in canter a good carrige/contact is not as easy as trot, walk, but its when she's jumping that her head goes up/down

 

[Cliqmo]

[ QUOTE ]
the gag is a single jointed, and its quite a fat mouthpeice to be honest...
Would you therefore recommend me use a different bit for different disiplines?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would suggest getting a gag with a narrower thickness and a french link/ peanut/ lozenge mouthpiece first and see if that helps before changing bits entirely... I personally hate single jointed bits!!

The head throwing and shaking cross country *might* just be excitement (my Mum's hunter does it when he doesn't want to stop!) and the showjumping thing may be caused in part by your hands... have you asked anyone to CC your hand position when you are showjumping?... Sometimes when people sit up and take contact (to adjust a stride etc) they lift their hands (it's a fairly common and minor fault) but its effect is massively exacerbated by the gag... try keeping your hands lower and seeing if it helps

 

[vikkiandmonica]

If she's unhappy in the mouth, maybe try her in a hackamore?

 

[ElliePippa]

thankyou ali_m, so do you think it's an issue of comfort, not of her being stupid-anyhow, with all the pulling i have to do XC, im going to have upper-arm muscles like a weight lifter

!

 

[Cliqmo]

[ QUOTE ]
thankyou ali_m, so do you think it's an issue of comfort, not of her being stupid-anyhow, with all the pulling i have to do XC, im going to have upper-arm muscles like a weight lifter

!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup sounds a bit like she might be trying to avoid the contact, although being a bit cheeky at the same time (especially xc!)

 

[vikkiandmonica]

Why don't you try a hackamore, if its her bit?

 

[ElliePippa]

but arent they quite hard to turn in, due to the lack of a bit?

 

[Cliqmo]

[ QUOTE ]
but arent they quite hard to turn in, due to the lack of a bit?

[/ QUOTE ]

A friend of mine used to ride her VERY forward gelding in a pelham and a Dr Cooks bitless bridle as she found it helped with her steering and control!

 

[Sol]

I used to use a combination of an english hackamore & a very simple low ported straight bar bradoon on my last horse, found it brilliant. Never got to try her XC in it because for that I just used the same bit & a kineton noseband....

Actually, theres a point, have you tried a Kineton noseband? it applies pressure to the nose when you pull on the reins, but also prevents you from putting loads of pressure on the horses mouth/tongue as it supports the bit. It could work, I love them!