Ideal weight

[CanteringCarrot]

Another thread got me thinking about this. I hear it often on here about horses being too fat, obese, and it being a severe welfare issue. I agree that horses shouldn't be overweight, and I stumbled across some morbidly obese Black Forest horses the other day that I felt bad for who were so obviously unhealthy. A friend said "they're just built that way" but that's not the case, these were straight up fatties.

But I hear it on this forum more than other forums and in real life, so do you all have a obesity problem up there in the UK? Is it because your fields are so lush? Is it because natives are so common and popular? - - and they're good doers. Is it that a majority are very light leisure riders so lack of exercise? Our fields used to be lush but apparently in this neck of the woods we turn into a barren wasteland every summer. Which isn't the worst thing for my PRE but I actually had to up his feed for the first time in a long time.

It makes me think that most on here would call our fit but beefy dressage horses here fat. It just seems like there's a minor obsession with keeping horses thinner than I'm used to. So I've become curious about this. It seems as though laminitis isn't so common at the stables I've been at, which is good! I can't even think of a recent case of the top of my head. But so you commonly keep your horse on the "thin" side and what determines a "healthy weight" in your opinion?

 

[Winters100]

This is a really difficult one and everyone has different views. If I am in doubt about one of mine I just pull up a condition scoring sheet and try to look at them objectively - but of course with your own horses it is not always easy. Personally I like to feel but not see ribs, but of course some horses are just 'ribby' and in this case that rule does not really help.
The UK gets a lot of rain, and the grass there is certainly richer than it is where I am based in Poland. But I also think your point about native breeds is a good one - a pony designed to live on scrub land in the welsh mountains is obviously going to have a problem if out 24/7 in a huge field with lots of rich grass.

It is a difficult topic, and I know that a lot of really good owners struggle to keep their horses at sensible weights, but I am glad that it is considered to be an issue, because the first step to having your horse at a healthy weight is to be aware of it

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I find that here, I see far more underweight horses than over weight horses. But, like I said we've become a wasteland. You used to be able to plop your horse or young unbroke stock on the field May - Nov and not have to do a thing aside from refill the water tank and toss a salt block out there. Now we've had to put hay out, add supplemental feed (muesli, pellets, whatever else), and attempt to rotate/find additional grazing. I usually decrease my horse's feed but this year I am increasing. This is also horse that comes from a hot, dry, shrubby area (Spain).

I also wonder if judges in the UK ever favored the overweight horse, or turned a blind eye, such as in halter classes in the USA.

 

[Winters100]

I think that you are right about Judges. There have been a few threads here with photos of successful horses that have shocked me. For example https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/...this-week-is-it-just-me.787255/#post-14232314

It also depends upon the discipline. I have to say that I do see some of the dressage horses in our yard as fat, but not so much that I would class it as a welfare issue. Just today one of them asked me to make up a feed for her horse as she was running late, and given the amount of work the horse has I was shocked at the amount of food, which to me was double what I would give a horse doing that level of work. But also I have to remind myself that perhaps they view my horses as too thin, and who am I to say who is right.

 

[Cortez]

I agree that the majority of leisure horses that I see are too fat. I am astounded that people are actually feeding horses that are already fat and in little to no work at all, never mind the insane amounts they're getting. No wonder the horses are huge.

 

[Sprat]

I think the problem with a lot of leisure riders is that food is often associated as kindness / 'love' and owners tend to overfeed by way of giving treats etc. I have seen countless threads along the lines of 'my horse / pony is overweight, what should I feed it?' NOTHING.

 

[Winters100]

So true Sprat. Same with dogs - so many are obese and cannot enjoy a healthy life. Just the other day someone complimented me on my dogs, saying that they were all in such good shape, and then asked what she could do about hers, who was grossly overweight. I told her cut his food my 1/3 and double his exercise, if that doesn't work cut the food again. She looked horrified and told me 'oh, but he is always asking for treats'. Really? My oldest dog is the master of the 'puppy eyes', but I love him too much to make him obese. I admit I do give him many treats, but they consist of a chunk of carrot, a slice of watermelon or, if he is really lucky, a wafer thin slice of chicken. Same with the horses, they get treats every day, but certainly not commercially prepared full of sugar ones!

 

[Sprat]

I think that a lot of the problem in the UK is that it is seen as pretty normal to have a fat horse, so people don't really see that there is an issue with it (showing doesn't help, in my opinion!). There is also a lack of regular exercise - in the majority of livery yards I have been on, people will hack a couple of times a week (and by hack, I mean a 45 min walk around the block) and deem that as sufficient exercise, which it simply isn't for the amount of feed that is being pumped into these animals. Very few seem to put in place a proper training plan including fast / varied work anymore.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

So true Sprat. Same with dogs - so many are obese and cannot enjoy a healthy life. Just the other day someone complimented me on my dogs, saying that they were all in such good shape, and then asked what she could do about hers, who was grossly overweight. I told her cut his food my 1/3 and double his exercise, if that doesn't work cut the food again. She looked horrified and told me 'oh, but he is always asking for treats'. Really? My oldest dog is the master of the 'puppy eyes', but I love him too much to make him obese. I admit I do give him many treats, but they consist of a chunk of carrot, a slice of watermelon or, if he is really lucky, a wafer thin slice of chicken. Same with the horses, they get treats every day, but certainly not commercially prepared full of sugar ones!

I do agree with this. Many people are shocked/comment on the fact that my Lab isn't fat and that most are. She's fit. She eats proper portions, and is exercised daily. Her only treats are the occasional vegetable piece and dried meats (chicken breast, cow lung, turkey necks, etc.). Same for the horse, he gets "fat horse treats" that are basically tiny cubes that are compressed tiny pieces of hay, I guess. Nothing really in them other than that. He can afford to eat a carrot, apple, or banana every now and again because he works. Every day. Actual work. with a once a week hack. If he wasn't in work, he'd be eating a vit/min and appropriate forage and that'd be it.

In contrast there is his neighbor, currently out of work, who eats more than my horse would ever need to in work. His neighbor is also a very, very, tall WB who is harder to keep weight on. Two different types.

I do see people here feed their horses a lot of volume and not so much nutrition and wonder why their horses don't gain. Soaking a large amount of hay pellets doesn't pack the punch that fortified feeds do for a harder to keep weight on horse, IMO.

 

[scruffyponies]

Outside of racing there are hardly any horses in the UK in what I would describe as 'work'. Most are kept on far too little land, so don't even move around naturally at rest. As a result they are bored and eat more than they would if they were grazing naturally. This is even before anyone buys the highly processed rubbish that they 'have to' feed them in order to add the supplements, calmers and dubious herbal meds that they feel will substitute for the exercise and training that the poor beast actually needs.

A horse needs grass, fresh water and plenty of space. Sadly there's no profit in that.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I think it can be a number of reasons.

• Lack of understanding of what a fat horse - particularly native types - looks like as so many are overweight. If you're seeing glossy, shiny show ring horses that are overweight, ot can be hard to judge yours.

• Gross over-estimation of what level.of exercise a horse is in. have friends that swear their horse is in m


• Getting unbiased professional nutritional advice can also b hard - if I fed according to mosst of the recommended rates on the back of a feed packet or when you contact their staff, well I'd be in more trouble!

Then, I think there is the group of owners that know their horse is overweight, but stuck between a rock and a hard place.

My native was at his slimmest when I lived at home, was single and didn't have a demanding job so could spend hours riding - but life isn't always like that. My native's weight massively suffered when we were investigating a veterinary issue and when I was injured.

It can then be difficult to find yards that offer any turn out over winter (my native hated being in for 6-9 months of the year at one yard ) and good hacking. So for a while, I had to sacrifice facilities in order to get any kind of turn out for my horse which made exercising harder.

The turn out didn't always suit and you can't always section off fencing or persuade your native to keep a muzzle on ...!

This Spring was the biggest he's been in a long time but no facilities, a wet Winter followed by a dry Spring and rock hard ground, no sand school and a demanding job meant exercising was hard if not impossible.

I was still constantly told 'Oh, he's not that bad at all!' Despite being a 4.5 on the BCS chart :O

Happily, my native is now at a fantastic yard with good facilities on appropriately managed land that encourages maximum movement. As a result he's loosing weight and is now back in regular work. He's only innlight work which after a few months is: 1 flatwork schooling session a week, 1 poleworkor small jumping sesion, 2-3 hacks a week of walk and trot and some canter and a lunge or long lining session - but it's enough to make a difference.

I'm fully expecting us to both come out of Spring much fitter in this set up But, I consider myself very lucky to have found it and it is expensive, which doesn't always make it accessible to everyone.

 

[SEL]

I have a fat one. Out of work with a ligament injury on a well eaten down track with soaked hay. Fed a bit of chaff with some herbs in it. She's spent most of the year muzzled but is from a French meat breed and you'd definitely get a lot of sausages from her. She really needs to be in trot and canter work to shift blubber.

Very frustrating!

 

[ihatework]

People get used to what is considered ‘normal’, and over time that normal shifts. People are getting fatter in the UK and so are horses.

We have a huge leisure industry here. Part bred types doing barely any work and with owners who feed their horses (pets) to make themselves feel good and also increasingly rug them to the hilt too.

I actually had someone say to me the other day my horse was on the thin side. I almost choked as had just been musing cutting back the horses feed for starting to look fat!

 

[RHM]

As a owner of a previously fat native who managed to shed the pounds I have to say it’s a utter nightmare when these types are injured! I think I am the only person who looks forward to winter.
On my yard I am the only one who rides (new not injured horse) pretty much everyday. A mixture of fast hacks, schooling and a jumping lesson once a week and my horse is the only one on the yard which isn’t fed hard feed. All the others are natives and cob types, all fed and rugged up to the nines while my clipped ISH just gets ad-lib hay and a salt lick at the moment. People really overestimate the level of work their horses are in and feed to give them energy when they aren’t lazy they are just fat and unfit.

 

[Cowpony]

I think also people are afraid of letting their horse get a bit thinner over winter. I've got a good doer and let her drop the weight over winter (within reason obviously), because I know she'll put it back on in Spring. I've had vets say a couple of times in February that it's nice to see a cobby type at the right weight for the time of year. But most people would probably say she's too thin and start feeding her up. She'll do that on her own in a month or two!

 

[Theskebaldmare]

Another thread got me thinking about this. I hear it often on here about horses being too fat, obese, and it being a severe welfare issue. I agree that horses shouldn't be overweight, and I stumbled across some morbidly obese Black Forest horses the other day that I felt bad for who were so obviously unhealthy. A friend said "they're just built that way" but that's not the case, these were straight up fatties.

But I hear it on this forum more than other forums and in real life, so do you all have a obesity problem up there in the UK? Is it because your fields are so lush? Is it because natives are so common and popular? - - and they're good doers. Is it that a majority are very light leisure riders so lack of exercise? Our fields used to be lush but apparently in this neck of the woods we turn into a barren wasteland every summer. Which isn't the worst thing for my PRE but I actually had to up his feed for the first time in a long time.

It makes me think that most on here would call our fit but beefy dressage horses here fat. It just seems like there's a minor obsession with keeping horses thinner than I'm used to. So I've become curious about this. It seems as though laminitis isn't so common at the stables I've been at, which is good! I can't even think of a recent case of the top of my head. But so you commonly keep your horse on the "thin" side and what determines a "healthy weight" in your opinion?

I would answer butttttt all the ponies we own are little fatties

 

[Buster2020]

honestly some breeds are nightmares to keep them at a healthy weight. When I bought my horse she was obese it was very hard to get her back to normal weight and to this day she still managed to get fat in the summer and is normal weigh in the winter. Where I live a lot of people won’t be shy in telling your is fat and needs to lose weight. I also think a lot of yards have very lush grass.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

The most popular leisure type horses in the UK tend to be cobs and natives (or crosses of) and, for the most part, these only have to sniff grass to put on weight. I have 2 fatties this year, a mini Shitland and a large cob. Never had an issue with fat horses ever, but this year, due to various field issues, we have had to manage the grazing differently. I cannot believe the difference it's made to their weights..!!! I've been dumbfounded by how quickly they can pile on the weight to be honest and it's a hard slog getting it off them. Not going to lie, I've always been surprised that people couldn't get weight off their horses etc snd have probably been a little judgemental if I'm honest, I never will be again..!!!
The Shitland only has enough grass that it looks as though he should be an RSPCA case and the cob not much more.
Mine are never fed hard feed through the summer and rarely through the winter (one lost weight last year and needed some hard feed so the others had literallyahandful of chaff so they didn'tfeel hard done by ?). They also never have treats unless you count the VERY occasional small bag of carrots scattered around the field.

 

[Cortez]

I always look at the horse: if the field is bare and the horse is well covered, he stays in that field until/if he starts to drop weight. Obviously if the horse is a porker he doesn't go into a lush green meadow, but if the horse is a decent weight and not a greedy so-and-so he/she can stay there until/if they get chubbier, then they go into the Serengeti field.

 

[babymare]

With my young Sec D(typical good doer) winter was my best friend esp when she was retired due to sight issues. Only rug she wore was fly sheet in summer and regardless of weather she was rugless and out everyday in winter. People actually thought I was cruel not rugging her lol but she went into spring looking good ?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Hm. Opposite thing here. Our fields have been so dried out from lack of rain this summer and last (and maybe the one before, I cannot recall), I see a lot more slim horses. Many yards don't give supplemental hay when the grass is gone, or barely give enough/give irregularly.

It's actually been easier to keep weight on my horse in the winter when he's in his stable with small paddock and hay 24/7.

When riding or driving past the young horse herds that live out in various scattered fields, many are looking white slim and a bit ribby. I've not seen any too skinny though.

ETA: I also know that young horses go through various stages of growth so they don't always look their best!

 

[Auslander]

I would answer butttttt all the ponies we own are little fatties

So - what are you doing about it?

I don't have any obese horses here - a couple are closely monitored, and get banished to the track if they start to look a bit well covered. Until all the rain happened, my fields were very brown and sparse, so I fed hay for a while. They are now bright green, and the horses are very happy grazing- apart from at feedtime, when they hang around waiting for the hay they aren't going to get! I still don't have much grass, but they can go and forage if they are as hungry as they say they are!

 

[Auslander]

I always look at the horse: if the field is bare and the horse is well covered, he stays in that field until/if he starts to drop weight. Obviously if the horse is a porker he doesn't go into a lush green meadow, but if the horse is a decent weight and not a greedy so-and-so he/she can stay there until/if they get chubbier, then they go into the Serengeti field.

MY shitlands are in a weed patch at the moment! There is virtually no grass, but they are still looking rather well, so they're obviously finding sustenance from somewhere! I have no problem ignoring their suggestions that theyd like to go back out in the big field - but have to keep a careful eye on my liveries, who seem to think that they need hay and snacks to keep them alive!

 

[Fransurrey]

I also wonder if judges in the UK ever favored the overweight horse, or turned a blind eye, such as in halter classes in the USA.

Definitely. I've had nice comments from vets and other owners about how lovely it is to see a slim and fit cob, but also an experienced showing owner said that he would do very poorly in the ring because of it. Their loss!

 

[Ceriann]

Mine is currently off the grass on a fat net of hay during the day and I’ve upped the exercise. I’ve struggled to get her back to pre-injury weight (she was always pre-injury very easy to keep at a consistent healthy weight) but vet check done and front shoes on and we’re going to be hacking that weight off!

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

There are I think 2 major factors to obesity levels in horses in the UK, rugging and feed.

People at my yard think I'm mad giving my mare literally a handful of oat straw chaff free from molasses, alfalfa etc and she hasn't seen a rug for well over a year now. She came out of this winter rugless looking amazing bearing in mind her workload was minimal due to weather, work, exams and my status as a fair weather rider. She has only put on a bit of weight (normal summer weight) since. I can't wait to see what she looks like next summer as she won't be going into this winter anywhere near as fat as she did last summer.

I think what people forget is (at least for native cobby types) they are literally designed for the UK climate. I think also, as someone above mentioned, people vastly over exaggerate the amount of work their horses are in.

 

[Op_al12]

I completely agree, lots of people overfeed and over rug horses who, quite frankly, don't need it. Yes, if you have a WB that struggles to keep weight on then fair play! But I feel a lot of people do it out of sympathy for the horse. I have a Connie mare who is a good doer, are fields have struggled a fair amount this year due to the lack of rain, I usually chuck a section of hay just to lessen the risk of anything like ulcers, etc (there was virtually no grass). She doesn't get hard feed in the summer (maybe a small sloppy daily balancer with electrolytes after a particularly hard lesson). She doesn't get fed horse treats, unless they are low calorie, usually just a nice carrot after a ride. This has really helped keep her weight down, especially after all the rain we have been having. When she came to us she wasn't particularly overweight, just under muscled as she had only hacked (short walk, maybe trot hacks) a couple times a week. She is, however, rugged during the winter as she gets a blanket clip, otherwise she gets rather sweaty. I would personally say she is in medium work, 1 flatwork session, 1 poll work session, and one jump session (each last about 45 mins) 1 day off and the rest hacking. However, I like to vary our hacking (we have incredible hacking) 1 long-distance hack a week usually 2 and 1/2- 3 hours, one stamina hack, hill work, lots of canter work (we have a mile gallop very close to the yard) where we do lots of lengthening and shortening strides/ adjusting pace. I feel everyone's opinion on light/medium/heavy work is different, how would you guys define it?

 

[Gloi]

I completely agree, lots of people overfeed and over rug horses who, quite frankly, don't need it. Yes, if you have a WB that struggles to keep weight on then fair play! But I feel a lot of people do it out of sympathy for the horse. I have a Connie mare who is a good doer, are fields have struggled a fair amount this year due to the lack of rain, I usually chuck a section of hay just to lessen the risk of anything like ulcers, etc (there was virtually no grass). She doesn't get hard feed in the summer (maybe a small sloppy daily balancer with electrolytes after a particularly hard lesson) I would personally say she is in medium work, 1 flatwork session, 1 poll work session, and one jump session (each last about 45 mins) 1 day off and the rest hacking. However, I like to vary our hacking (we have incredible hacking) 1 long-distance hack a week usually 2 and 1/2- 3 hours, one stamina hack, hill work, lots of canter work (we have a mile gallop very close to the yard) where we do lots of lengthening and shortening strides/ adjusting pace. I feel everyone's opinion on light/medium/heavy work is different, how would you guys define it?

I'd still really be considering that light work. I don't think there are many leisure horses in anything else. Only once the horses start really getting competition fit would I think they are moving up a level.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

I'd still really be considering that light work. I don't think there are many leisure horses in anything else. Only once the horses start really getting competition fit would I think they are moving up a level.

I would agree with light work. I think light work covers a large area because the horse has the innate ability to cope with a relatively large amount of exercise compared to their measly human counterparts.

Another thing that baffles me is people feeding competition mixes every day but go to one 80cm show once in a blue moon?!

 

[Gloi]

Most fat natives who are healthy and aren't living in a wildly exposed situation will winter out with a trace or chaser clip which will help with winter weight control.