Ideas please to stop overbending.

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poiuytrewq

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Horse is lovely, well schooled with previous owner who told me she used to have problems getting him to accept much contact and had tried every bit out there. The best one she found was a Neue Schule with a lozenge and fixed rings.
I currently ride him in this, have tried a few others but agree he's better in this one.
I ride with a light contact, and am naturally soft handed but even more consciously so now.
He often carries himself with his chin on his chest. If I were a dressage rider people would accuse me of using Rolkur 😳
It's not a huge issue but he's very behind the vertical when he does it which effects how in control I am slightly (and only occasionally as he's uber well behaved) e.g., today he was a bit fresh out cantering and I did need to have a bit more "feel"
I just dislike it and am unsure what to do!?
 
Have you tried slim mullen mouth with a decent curve? A Myler mullen mouth helped mine finally take the contact forward, though if worried or excited he'd still drop the contact & overbend. I'd be lying to say I ever really fixed it, and it's not a nice feel. Other than that it's the old very soft supple hands that only move forwards never back, and in times of crisis pray!
 
Get a good instructor to watch from the ground would be plan A.

Plan B....based on what you say, I would switch horse to something stupid like a happy mouth straight bar plastic bit and spend the next four months hacking in straight lines - initially solely at walk and then adding in trot - focussing on the horse seeking the contact forwards and out.

Had to do this with a horse of mine that was ridden by a very strong pro.....strong both in hand AND leg. After pro stopped competing horse and I took over full time, we had to reset the parameters....I was just not strong enough in my seat and legs to accommodate the strength of hand/contact that the horse had become used to.
 
Try lifting your hands up, so the bit goes up into the corner s of the mouth not down and back on the bars, as soon as he lifts his head praise and back up with the leg. Every time he goes down lift the hands - my froesian overbent like a blinking banana when I got her and my classics instructor gave me this trick which really helped - going into canter was like riding the headless horse ��
 
TigerTail said:
Try lifting your hands up, so the bit goes up into the corner s of the mouth not down and back on the bars, as soon as he lifts his head praise and back up with the leg. Every time he goes down lift the hands - my froesian overbent like a blinking banana when I got her and my classics instructor gave me this trick which really helped - going into canter was like riding the headless horse ��
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Echo the above, my mare used to over bend dramatically and it's not nice having her head disappear out the front door! (previous owner had ridden in draw reins and was very focused on getting her head apparently 'down and in the right place' my instructer told me to gently lift my hands to encourage her up and with time we have got through it.
 
Nari said:
Have you tried slim mullen mouth with a decent curve? A Myler mullen mouth helped mine finally take the contact forward, though if worried or excited he'd still drop the contact & overbend. I'd be lying to say I ever really fixed it, and it's not a nice feel. Other than that it's the old very soft supple hands that only move forwards never back, and in times of crisis pray!
Click to expand...

Fully agree with this. If a Myler mullen doesn't work then maybe try something with a 'softer' mouthpiece like a Nathe.
 
Thanks for the replies.
I'll try to comment on all, the bit suggestions. Actually old owner said she used to hunt him in a thick rubber snaffle to encourage him to take more of a hold. (Admit at the time I thought that odd, most people bit up more to hunt and don't want the horse to take a hold) that's now making sense. I'd forgotten that.
The myler I had thought of but no not tried. Will look at a mega gentle Mullen mouth then.
I've not had lessons over the winter and he does it less in a schooling situation anyway. Her thought was that maybe he does it because in the past someone has just tried to hoik his head in but not had him working from behind, so he learnt to hold his head in thinking that was what was required.
I'm not sure on this theory as said last owner had him going beautifully in the school, although I never saw them hack.
I have tried holding my hands higher but not consistently, more the odd attempt now and again and generally my daughter tells me not to do I stop 😂 May try that properly then as I've done more "oi stop, head up" then released again.
Thankyou all
 
Interesting that ALL the replies, all the thinking, focusses on the head. It's not the bit that is the problem, and changing it won't help: what needs to change is the training/riding/thinking of both the horse and the rider. Horses that are behind the aids are not forward - even if they are running away - and the first thing that needs to change is the idea that the bit/reins are "brakes" or even "steering". It can take a very long time to correct this (six years in the case of a Spanish horse I have - see him in avatar), and the key is to get the horse really reactive to the leg and particularly seat. Nothing revelatory, just good old half halts, upward and downward transitions off the seat and extreme sensitivity on the part of the rider. Good luck - it's one of the most difficult training faults to correct (but so very satisfying when the penny finally starts to drop and the horse stops being afraid).
 
I was reading the replies wondering why no-one had mentionned using more leg, until Cortez! My friends has a mare who gets behind the vertical and I have to remind her to ride forwards. It's very easy to shorten the reins but forget to ride into the contact.
 
More leg may sometimes be the answer, but not always, my lad would overbend as a dare to put the leg on & God help anyone foolish enough to take it. I replied based on my experience & I'm certainly not denying that getting them in front of the leg can be the answer in some cases, but it's no more an absolute answer than changing the bit or the hand height. Getting them more responsive to the leg won't help if they won't accept a contact, changing the bit won't help if they're behind the leg.
 
Cortez said:
Interesting that ALL the replies, all the thinking, focusses on the head. It's not the bit that is the problem, and changing it won't help: what needs to change is the training/riding/thinking of both the horse and the rider. Horses that are behind the aids are not forward - even if they are running away - and the first thing that needs to change is the idea that the bit/reins are "brakes" or even "steering". It can take a very long time to correct this (six years in the case of a Spanish horse I have - see him in avatar), and the key is to get the horse really reactive to the leg and particularly seat. Nothing revelatory, just good old half halts, upward and downward transitions off the seat and extreme sensitivity on the part of the rider. Good luck - it's one of the most difficult training faults to correct (but so very satisfying when the penny finally starts to drop and the horse stops being afraid).
Click to expand...

I have a similar problem, in my case it is worst when jumping as the horse gets more and more excited.
I have recently changed to a new dressage instructor who has me working along the lines Cortez describes, even riding bitless in a Micklem bridle on its mildest setting. ( this is in a small indoor school which the horse doesn’t find exciting.
However it still doesn’t translate to jumping (in a more exciting large outdoor school) when he gets stronger and stronger and more over bent.
I could stop jumping for now while working on the flat work - but I’m not sure the horse will ever not find jumping exciting.
 
Usually curling behind the bit comes from a weakness/lack of impulsion/not enough leg/hands too low.

My new girl will "curl" if my hands are too low and I don't have enough leg on her to keep her forward into the contact. If I keep my hands up, and I keep her infront of my leg, pushing up into the contact she comes right.

It can be deceptive as you may feel the horse is forward, but chances are they aren't truly forwards, probably more a case of running from your aids instead of accepting them. I usually found that loads of transitions, and some lateral work like shoulder in, leg yield etc to get the horse pushing from their hind end usually help.

Interestingly, when I saw Charlotte Dujardin at YHL, the mare she was riding Florentina has the same issue , and as Cortez has already said (and Charlotte also said) it is often the hardest and longest thing to correct and the last thing to fall into place!
 
I do keep letting my hands get to low so will try and remember that.
In my case I think i’ll try halting after each jump to nip the tanking off in the bud and throwing in leg yield etc.

OP if you can try it safely I found riding in a Micklem bitless really helpful in learning to use my seat aids etc (very much work in progress!)
 
Cortez said:
Interesting that ALL the replies, all the thinking, focusses on the head. It's not the bit that is the problem, and changing it won't help: what needs to change is the training/riding/thinking of both the horse and the rider. Horses that are behind the aids are not forward - even if they are running away - and the first thing that needs to change is the idea that the bit/reins are "brakes" or even "steering". It can take a very long time to correct this (six years in the case of a Spanish horse I have - see him in avatar), and the key is to get the horse really reactive to the leg and particularly seat. Nothing revelatory, just good old half halts, upward and downward transitions off the seat and extreme sensitivity on the part of the rider. Good luck - it's one of the most difficult training faults to correct (but so very satisfying when the penny finally starts to drop and the horse stops being afraid).
Click to expand...

Agree with this as well I have one that over bends if his not forward enough and his not forward thinking at all but once you get him listening and forward he works in a much better frame.
 
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