Damnation
Well-Known Member
...What is?
Izzi
Izzi
If a passport is not proof of ownership of a horse..
- Thread starter Damnation
- Start date
Kat
Well-Known Member
A passport is not proof of ownership but it can be considered as evidence of ownership. Other evidence of ownership could be a receipt, a copy of a bank statement showing payment, microchip or freezemark, witness statements, information given to vets, insurers etc.
There is no definitive proof of anything really except land.
There is no definitive proof of anything really except land.
pedilia
Well-Known Member
When my boy was stolen, I used his passport as evidence of ownership, a watertight loan contract, photos and I offered ( but didn't need) witness statements.
Wolfie
Well-Known Member
Are passports not mainly designed to protect the food chain and track the histories of slaughter horses? Grim really.
Damnation
Well-Known Member
So basically.....
When your horse is stolen, there is no solid paperwork that can prove you own the horse?!?!!
When your horse is stolen, there is no solid paperwork that can prove you own the horse?!?!!
Crazy Friesian
Well-Known Member
Thats about the size of it... And it would appear that even if your horse was "stolen" the police view it as a civil matter and therefore nothing to do with them... Cynic? me? never...
cally6008
Well-Known Member
Poor Man's Copyright Equine Proof of Ownership Packet: Put all of your important information such as bill of sale, ID registrations, current coggins, past coggins, vet records, registrations papers, copy of equine passport, health papers, 4 pictures (front, back, sides), picture of you, horse and another person in an envelope. Tape it shut and mail it to yourself.
Once you receive the packet put it in a safe place. You may even want to put it in a large baggie to protect it from water damage in case you are in a disaster. Once you received this back you have a time stamp on the envelope. Do not open the envelope. You have a poor mans copyright on the information inside.
And don't open it - leave it sealed. It's a great idea and easy to do. Make sure there is a picture of you with your horse(s). Then remember to keep with your most important papers. I put mine in a suitcase so I can easily get the suitcase to our storm cellar in tornado season.
If you find yourself in a situation where you have to prove ownership to police, give them the envelope and let them open it. This does not break the chain of custody just in case the evidence has to be used in court. The information should help you take your horse home right then.
(taken from Netposse FB group, October 16, 2011)
I have asked if this would stand up in UK courts/police but no reply.
Once you receive the packet put it in a safe place. You may even want to put it in a large baggie to protect it from water damage in case you are in a disaster. Once you received this back you have a time stamp on the envelope. Do not open the envelope. You have a poor mans copyright on the information inside.
And don't open it - leave it sealed. It's a great idea and easy to do. Make sure there is a picture of you with your horse(s). Then remember to keep with your most important papers. I put mine in a suitcase so I can easily get the suitcase to our storm cellar in tornado season.
If you find yourself in a situation where you have to prove ownership to police, give them the envelope and let them open it. This does not break the chain of custody just in case the evidence has to be used in court. The information should help you take your horse home right then.
(taken from Netposse FB group, October 16, 2011)
I have asked if this would stand up in UK courts/police but no reply.
Spring Feather
Well-Known Member
Yes a bill of sale/receipt. Same as you would have for any other purchase
crabbymare
Well-Known Member
When I bought horses from Germany they came with a passport and a paper that has a very long name but is a certificate of ownership. The passport stays with the horse and the certificate stays with the owner. Its not possible to get a second certificate so they are kept very safely, it is however possible to get another passport if you have the certificate.
If that sort of thing was put in place in the UK it wuld be much easier to prove ownership and would not be expensive to implement, if at the time the passport is issued a piece of paper was printed it would not be difficult or expensive. The additional cost of handling and printing one piece of paper is surely not going to be more than 10p?
If that sort of thing was put in place in the UK it wuld be much easier to prove ownership and would not be expensive to implement, if at the time the passport is issued a piece of paper was printed it would not be difficult or expensive. The additional cost of handling and printing one piece of paper is surely not going to be more than 10p?
Spyda
Well-Known Member
So how do you prove ownership of a homebred horse?
crabbymare
Well-Known Member
Copy of covering certificate, copy of original passport application, copy of anything the breed society or passport issuer sends you?
Zarkaz
Well-Known Member
I proved my ownership with pictures, emails, letters, witnesses. Anything really that mentioned his and my name together it worked for me in court when my ownership was questioned by the loaner
Spyda
Well-Known Member
Can't say I've kept any of those... it was a while ago
Will know for future though!Orangehorse
Well-Known Member
A Certificate of Ownership is a good idea. I thought that the breed registration document would be proof, but it belongs to the breed society and has to be returned if the horse dies.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Some breed societies have a certificate of ownership that the seller has to sign and send in when the animal is sold.
I would have thought a simple bill with all the animals details signed by the seller that you have paid would be OK. If you have bred a foal, the bill for the mare and the covering certificate
I would have thought a simple bill with all the animals details signed by the seller that you have paid would be OK. If you have bred a foal, the bill for the mare and the covering certificate
Ranyhyn
Well-Known Member
sywell
Well-Known Member
The British Hanoverian Society has issued a Proof of Ownership that is stamped with the purchasers name and signed by the seller for many years.
Kat
Well-Known Member
There is no single definitive document that is correct. Just the same as if your TV got stolen, or a diamond ring.
The only thing that there is definitive proof of ownership for is land.
Horse passports are very much of the same status as your V5 for a car, that doesn't prove who the owner is only who the registered keeper is, which may be different from the owner.
If there is potential for there to be a dispute as to ownership of the horse then you will need several different types of evidence and it could eventually come down to who has the best evidence. Receipt for purchase helps, but not if someone claims they bought the horse from you after that date.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
A passport has never been proof of ownership. If your horse is at competion livery the rider will have the passport it does not make the horse theirs.
Bill of sale with the name and passport number on it would be proof ,for home breds photos vets bill the copy's of you applying for the passport .
I think it would a good thing if we all considered exactly how we would prove that we own our horses it's just one of those awful things you don't want to think about.
Bill of sale with the name and passport number on it would be proof ,for home breds photos vets bill the copy's of you applying for the passport .
I think it would a good thing if we all considered exactly how we would prove that we own our horses it's just one of those awful things you don't want to think about.