If it’s subtle lameness after hard work… is she sore or lame?

[Vimto22]

On Sunday I entered an endurance ride, vetted in fine, vet said sound as a pound. After the ride she had a second opinion and then proceeded to disqualify my horse on mild lameness of the left hind. Brought my horse home and sound again. She’s squared off her hoof on that leg-occasionally hits it on the concrete rather than drags it.

The leg has an old injury on. Contacted Chiro who thinks soreness, need to get booked in. Farrier who thinks she needs corrective shoeing. Trimmer who says don’t shoe as so cow hocked will put pressure on legs. Called vet, they would to do a lameness work up, but she won’t show lameness without hard work! Unless I ride her hard before it but worrying there’s anything in there?

She has a bump above her hock from an old injury(hunt hireling as a youngster unfortunately) my brain is exploding with not knowing what to do, should I go straight for vet and let them work out if it’s X-rays/ultrasound/something else?
Thank you

 

[Red-1]

On Sunday I entered an endurance ride, vetted in fine, vet said sound as a pound. After the ride she had a second opinion and then proceeded to disqualify my horse on mild lameness of the left hind. Brought my horse home and sound again. She’s squared off her hoof on that leg-occasionally hits it on the concrete rather than drags it.

The leg has an old injury on. Contacted Chiro who thinks soreness, need to get booked in. Farrier who thinks she needs corrective shoeing. Trimmer who says don’t shoe as so cow hocked will put pressure on legs. Called vet, they would to do a lameness work up, but she won’t show lameness without hard work! Unless I ride her hard before it but worrying there’s anything in there?

She has a bump above her hock from an old injury(hunt hireling as a youngster unfortunately) my brain is exploding with not knowing what to do, should I go straight for vet and let them work out if it’s X-rays/ultrasound/something else?
Thank you

I would go for the vet. They may be able to make her lame by a flexion test enough to make nerve blocks effective to determine the source of the pain, then X ray and scan to determine cause of pain in that area. Then they can formulate an informed action plan for treatment.

The other courses of action are simply shots in the dark.

 

[sassandbells]

I second getting a vet would probably be your best option, if you’re happy to go down that route. They might be able to spot something you’re missing or the various tests may show something as Red-1 says.

 

[Vimto22]

Thank you she has shown some symptoms before such as heavy on forehand, can be a bit sideways jumping and stiff behind - but as it always went away after regular physio work I never questioned it. Perhaps a deeper issue is causing these niggles that seem treatable by physio but aren’t really! Many thanks

 

[misst]

For me soreness and lameness are interchangeable. "limping" is the term we would use for a human with a sore foot or leg or a very stiff joint. Pain is pain. Vet first then hoepfully you'll have a cause. You might find a good equine vet will see a subtle lameness anyway. Hope it is something simple.

 

[Vimto22]

Thanks so much, vet booked to come Friday x

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Agree definitely vet good luck.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Any deviation from symmetry and soundness is lameness.
Stiff = lame
Sore = lame
Unlevel = lame

 

[tda]

Any deviation from symmetry and soundness is lameness.
Stiff = lame
Sore = lame
Unlevel = lame

Agree

 

[MuddyMonster]

Any deviation from symmetry and soundness is lameness.
Stiff = lame
Sore = lame
Unlevel = lame

I do agree but I think it's important to remember that very few horses are 100% sound or symmetrical but plenty can be kept happy for an appropriate workload (and plenty of those actually benefit from corect work).

I think words like stiff or sore have their place in describing movent. Mine can come out the stable stiffer than I put him away on a cold winter's night - but he's an late teenaged horse who after a lap or two of walk in the school or by the end of our driveway is moving freely and spends a lot of his time bouncing about. If I said to most I was riding a lame horse they'd be horrified but describing him as a little 'stiff' coming out the stable paints a different picture.

Hope the vet finds something easily fixable OP.

 

[sbloom]

I think if it's DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) 2-3 days after work then that's normal, stiff and sore after work is more of a question. If she's been on the forehand then do look into posture, compensatory movement patterns, Equitopia Center membership is a good place to start to get your head around it.

 

[Sossigpoker]

I do agree but I think it's important to remember that very few horses are 100% sound or symmetrical but plenty can be kept happy for an appropriate workload (and plenty of those actually benefit from corect work).

I think words like stiff or sore have their place in describing movent. Mine can come out the stable stiffer than I put him away on a cold winter's night - but he's an late teenaged horse who after a lap or two of walk in the school or by the end of our driveway is moving freely and spends a lot of his time bouncing about. If I said to most I was riding a lame horse they'd be horrified but describing him as a little 'stiff' coming out the stable paints a different picture.

Hope the vet finds something easily fixable OP.

Not being 100% sound = lame.
The vet might clear the horse to do some work but that doesn't negate the fact that it's lame.
People just need to stop accepting "stiffness " or "a bit unlevel" and working the horse regardless, pretending that only head nodding lameness is lameness.

I saw some well known saddle club horses ride past today where I was working , and several of them were noticeably lame behind. A lot of people would say "he's a bit stiff and short " , but no , that's lameness.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Not being 100% sound = lame.

I'm not disputing that.

But I can still understand why someone that has had a lameness work up done, understand why their horse isn't 100% sound but works with professionals to ensure their horse is pain free and is proactive in helping their horse remain as sound as possible (and continues riding where appropiate) would choose to say 'stiff' rather than lame to someone that doesn't know the background.

 

[misst]

I have a dodgy knee which makes me limp but it does not always hurt and I can walk comfortably for miles most days so I get the "not sound does not always equal pain" but I do have choices. If something hurts I don't have to do it - though I may chose to do it anyway or take painkillers so I can do it. Horses are likely similar minus some of my choices so it is up to the owner to find out why they are not sound and then as MuddyMonster says manage it appropriately. Work can sometimes prevent it getting worse but it needs very careful knowledgeable management.

 

[sbloom]

I think it's rare (but does exist) that a horse can be NQR and not have pain at least some of the time. Traditionally we've not been good at spotting it, vets diagnosing it etc and it ends up being seen as a mechanical lameness. If we look at the Sue Dyson pain ethogram etc, at movement patterns, I think we can see that the horse isn't as happy as we might have thought.

 

[Tidy_rabbit]

This happened to me years ago (including being disqualified at the final trot up on a endurance ride, that we had started sound and made good time) and it was the onset of hock arthritis.

 

[spacefaer]

This happened to me years ago (including being disqualified at the final trot up on a endurance ride, that we had started sound and made good time) and it was the onset of hock arthritis.

100% this.
I was reading this post

Thank you she has shown some symptoms before such as heavy on forehand, can be a bit sideways jumping and stiff behind - but as it always went away after regular physio work I never questioned it. Perhaps a deeper issue is causing these niggles that seem treatable by physio but aren’t really! Many thanks

And thinking that sounds like hock pain.....

#notavet

 

[Vimto22]

Thanks all, will update with the outcome. Would make sense if it’s her hock, I’m sure I’ve heard of injections that offer relief

 

[sbloom]

Thanks all, will update with the outcome. Would make sense if it’s her hock, I’m sure I’ve heard of injections that offer relief

There are lots of possible treatments and you'll find them all discussed on here, pros and cons, experiences etc (do use the search function). However, it's all part of a pattern and often doesn't occur alone, so please do consider my previous post and look at posture and movement patterns as part of diagnosis and definitely in rehab, don't just fitten back up and then carry on exactly as you were before. 14 years a saddle fitter and the more I see the more I believe this to be true.

 

[Vimto22]

There are lots of possible treatments and you'll find them all discussed on here, pros and cons, experiences etc (do use the search function). However, it's all part of a pattern and often doesn't occur alone, so please do consider my previous post and look at posture and movement patterns as part of diagnosis and definitely in rehab, don't just fitten back up and then carry on exactly as you were before. 14 years a saddle fitter and the more I see the more I believe this to be true.

Thank you, that’s really interesting, will do

 

[sbloom]

Thank you, that’s really interesting, will do

Equitopiacenter.com really is a good place to start, lots of stuff on topline, posture, balance, compensatory movement patterns...

 

[Sossigpoker]

Thanks all, will update with the outcome. Would make sense if it’s her hock, I’m sure I’ve heard of injections that offer relief

Arthmid has been a miracle for us , got my horse sound in 48 hours (hock arthritis )

 

[Vimto22]

Vet came Friday, said she needs suspensory ultrasound and hock x rays. Unfortunately forgot the ultrasound machine so I’m taking her there in the morning to have it done. Been on bute and box rest (little grass pen in my case)since then but tonight was hopping lame in the pen so called vet and had the ok to put her in a small paddock which she then improved - she said doesn’t sound like tendon from that so hopefully some results tomorrow

 

[Vimto22]

Ultrasound showed some thickening of the suspensory ligament, x rays showed mild arthritic changes, he blocked her hocks and no difference to her lameness. They think it could be a chronic issue with suspensory. Then x rayed her hooves and her hoof bones are flatter than they should be? So having shoes put on to correct it, rest in a small paddock for 4 weeks with bute, then reassess. She’s happy enough in her little paddock so fingers crossed she’s sound in 4 weeks for reassessment

 

[Birker2020]

Not being 100% sound = lame.
The vet might clear the horse to do some work but that doesn't negate the fact that it's lame.
People just need to stop accepting "stiffness " or "a bit unlevel" and working the horse regardless, pretending that only head nodding lameness is lameness.

I saw some well known saddle club horses ride past today where I was working , and several of them were noticeably lame behind. A lot of people would say "he's a bit stiff and short " , but no , that's lameness.

Well my vet said he's only seen 3 completely sound horses in his career spanning 20+ years.

I'm stiff when i get out of the car after parking it. By the time I've got to the door I'm sound and walk normally. At that stage I'm not hurting anymore. I will always look sore or lame though as I have learnt to over compensate over the years.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Crossing everything for you OP

 

[Barton Bounty]

I probably can almost guarantee BB would not pass a vetting as 100% sound. After so many years of pounding the gallops there is probably little chance of it. For what we do , he is perfectly fine

 

[Sossigpoker]

I'm not saying that all horses can or should be 100% sound. Just that we should stop excusing and normalising working horses that are lame, by using words like stiff or unlevel.

Well my vet said he's only seen 3 completely sound horses in his career spanning 20+ years.

I'm stiff when i get out of the car after parking it. By the time I've got to the door I'm sound and walk normally. At that stage I'm not hurting anymore. I will always look sore or lame though as I have learnt to over compensate over the years.