if your passport is not a proove of ownership what is THEN !!!

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mighty

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can somebody tell me, if your passport is not a proof of ownership what is ??

bill of sale ?
chip,
branding
 
A passport is for identifcation purposes only, as I learnt when my horse was stolen!
Proof of ownership can be- letter from farrier/vet, receipt, vets bills (whic will have yours and horses name)

I have to prove ownership twice, once when he was stolen and currently when claiming LOU
 
pedilia said:
A passport is for identifcation purposes only, as I learnt when my horse was stolen!
Proof of ownership can be- letter from farrier/vet, receipt, vets bills (whic will have yours and horses name)

I have to prove ownership twice, once when he was stolen and currently when claiming LOU
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Bill of sale from what I'm aware. What if you've lost this or didn't get one? If it was queried, then would a letter from Vet/farrier to say that you do own the horse be sufficient?

Pedilia - A vets bill will have yours and horses name on but say for instance if I was loaning a horse then I would attach the horse onto my account and would pay vet bills so my name and horses name would both come on the invoice but I don't own the horse.

Glayva - That sounds like a much better system.
 
This is something I've been thinking about for a while now....I got my boy 2 years ago, paid a small token payment for his tack, rugs and worldy posessions and took him home. I completely (foolishly) forgot to ask for a receipt at the time and, although I've asked on numerous occaqsions since I haven't ever received one and I lost all contact with previous owner about a year ago.

Passport is now in my name and legally he is mine, I paid what was asked, I have witnesses to prove this (including the YO of previous owner as she wouldn't let the horse leave the premises before said previous owner paid an outstanding livery bill) but I don't have a piece of paper with it in writing.
 
well we had our horses stolen in belgium found them in england took us two and a half years to get them back and we had all the proof, so what is justice, plus theyt were provided with english passports, although they were all branded, what do you say to that, it cost 160 K laywers fees, pleasant is'nt it
 
pedilia said:
A passport is for identifcation purposes only, as I learnt when my horse was stolen!
Proof of ownership can be- letter from farrier/vet, receipt, vets bills (whic will have yours and horses name)

I have to prove ownership twice, once when he was stolen and currently when claiming LOU
Click to expand...

lucky you found him back
 
I feel for you Mighty, I know you not only lost a considerable amount of money getting what was rightfully yours back, but also the heartbreak of them not being fit for the purpose they were intended for in the condition you got them back.
Bill of sale is the ultimate proof, particularly if the vendor can verify the sale.
A microchip and passport only state (much like the logbook of a car) the registered keeper of the horse.
How are the horses now? Recovering from the trauma of what happened I hope?
 
I have bills of sale, Im quite careful about getting those. Dont quite know how it would work if I ever had to prove ownership of the foals though! Bills of sales from the dams and a copy of the covering certificates I suppose!
 
Could you make your own legal document of ownership with id details inc photos and witnessed say by vet and previous owner ???
 
Glayva said:
my horse has a german breed passport and it comes with a seperate certificate of ownership.
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(three of our horses were german were branded had theit birthcerticate and we had bills from vet, farrier and still it took us two years to get them back, and they gor an english pasport no problem, dont the nglish vet's know that when a horse is branded is has papers for sure, but they made the marking and whoops new horse, new name and a different age as well just to make sure you do not find your stolen horse back !!!
 
joeanne said:
I feel for you Mighty, I know you not only lost a considerable amount of money getting what was rightfully yours back, but also the heartbreak of them not being fit for the purpose they were intended for in the condition you got them back.
Bill of sale is the ultimate proof, particularly if the vendor can verify the sale.
A microchip and passport only state (much like the logbook of a car) the registered keeper of the horse.
How are the horses now? Recovering from the trauma of what happened I hope?
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they are recovering
 
it has happened more then once that horses got english passports with a new name a different age, how is this possible, the people who have done this and found out leter should be punished for fraudn and the passport's agency's should check out if the horse is not stolen !!!
 
Slightly different system as my boy is French.
There is nothing on his passport that says who the owner is, it's just an identification document.
When I got him I had to to contact Les Haras Nationaux in France and send copies of bills of sale etc to arrange transfer of ownership. So now I am the registered owner with them and this can be looked up if anyone needed to check.
 
All of mine have registration certificates from their breed society, in my case, The Arab Horse Society. Ownership details are on the certificate but it is essential that transfer of ownership details are passed on to the AHS with the certificate for updating, every time the horse changes hands.
 
Same thing in my case. Breeder is recorded on AHS Registration Certificate and if the horse remains with the breeder, that will also be recorded as the owner. A Transfer of Ownership Form is included with the certificate and that should be returned to the AHS with the Registration Certificate on the horse changing hands. The Registration Certificate will be updated with the new owner's details and a new, blank Transfer of Ownership Form will be included should the horse change hands again. Of course, the system will fall down if new owners fail to complete the documents but, for those who do, a Registration Certificate with you named as the owner should be proof positive that the horse belongs to you.
 
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It behoves everyone to change the ownership details in their passports as soon as the horse changes ownership.
I think all passports should include fixed pages that ask the seller to complete the full address details of the new owner which the new owner needs to sign too before the passport is sent in. Before the rule about travelling with a passport I would always send the passport in myself when the horse left the yard so that I knew it had been done and would be up to date with the new owner's details.

SN, if you've bred it yourself , the passport will say so and be registered in your name; it should only get changed when you've sold on the horse.
 
Passports are a joke and not worth the paper they are written on.

There should only have been ONE authority to issue ALL UK passports, not the numerous mickey mouse agencies that there are.

Additionally all horses should have been required to be chipped and this linked to both the passport and a separate owner certificate.

Mind all the time horses are routinely scanned and chip checked at sales/ports etc... It is all entirely pointless.
 
Maesfen said:
Lol, never thought about it like that before! How do you prove that anyone who breeds owns anything until passports are treated as important as car registration papers.
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ahhh but car log books are not proof of ownership either!!!
it is all a big mess, i had lost my daughters pony's passport so got vet out, he did ID and microchipped him and off went the paperwork, 10 days later nice new passport for a 15 yr old pony! no queries as to why he needed a new passport at his age which TBH i half expected a grilling for!! he hadn't had a passport for 5 years:o
theres an ad in my local free-ads for a 1 yr old filly which clearly states there is no passport as they haven't bothered:rolleyes: friend of mine was sold 2 ponies last year and the seller had 'forgot' the passports so sent them on, they were both fake:rolleyes:
 
The British Hanoverian Horse Society issue a seperate proof of ownership document. The problem is DEFRA will not take any actions about any Passport Issuer who issues a passport to a horse that already has one.
 
Mighty...I know which case is your's, what was wrong with your horses when you got them back?

I never did trust that JW, known of her for nearly 20 yrs now, she has an evil eye, I would never trust her with a barge pole, and I'm so sorry she did this to you. She is a low life scumbag!
I don't know the other person involved very well, but I have to say, if she associates with JW then she should not be trusted either.

Glad your horses are back with you.
 
criso said:
Slightly different system as my boy is French.
There is nothing on his passport that says who the owner is, it's just an identification document.
When I got him I had to to contact Les Haras Nationaux in France and send copies of bills of sale etc to arrange transfer of ownership. So now I am the registered owner with them and this can be looked up if anyone needed to check.
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yes when you buy a selle francais you ahve to send your papers and the they give you the proof of ownership , good i think better then england there you can register any horse ask a passport and then it is yours
 
VLHIEASTON said:
Mighty...I know which case is your's, what was wrong with your horses when you got them back?

I never did trust that JW, known of her for nearly 20 yrs now, she has an evil eye, I would never trust her with a barge pole, and I'm so sorry she did this to you. She is a low life scumbag!
I don't know the other person involved very well, but I have to say, if she associates with JW then she should not be trusted either.

Glad your horses are back with you.
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jw sold one of our horses to eo with another name and a different age, somebody else sold a horse to hm with a passport giving another name and age , and the horse was a cripple, they are all in it surely it will come out one day
 
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