Im driving my self crazy!

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ducktails

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I have already messaged a couple of individuals from here so if you are one of those people I am very grateful for any advice but after reading a post from Catembi (sp) I really just wanted to put something out there and see if anyone has any suggestions / has been through something similar. Ill try and be as brief as I can
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I have had my current mare 8 months she is 7 this may but very sensible for her age. We havent had the best start
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she got kicked in the knee shorty after getting her and had an infected extensor tendon but that recovered fine. Anyway she has always been a pleasure to be around but in the last few months she has gone vile and I am at a loss to why. In september she developed a throughpin which i had the vet out for because it combined with a change in behavour. However after trot up, lunging and flexsions vet told me she was sound as a pound and that the difficulties are behavoural so to carry on as normal and get some work into her. I followed instructions until just before Christmas when she started napping with me, running backwards and even some spectacuclar rears she was doing this both out hacking and in the school, again every man and his opinion told me she is just 'having me on' but I got a mctimoney lady out anyway who found quite a bit of soreness down spine and tight through shoulders and neck and also across her bum (technical term). She had also become very very reluctant to go off my leg kicking out and bucking / squealing when i put my leg on. So over christmas i went back to the drawing board booked a proper saddle fitter (even though i had it done 3 months ago) and spent a month / lunging and long reining. My mc tim lady is now working with me every couple of weeks to free my mare through the shoulders but im not convinced that we have found whats really wrong. This mare is now horrible to tack up and napped the other day from the middle of a ride (wasnt asked to walk out in front she just stopped ran backwards and started rearing) So the reason for my pleading post is what does anyone think is actually wrong?

I had the mare 5 stage vetted when bought, she walks wide behind a bit like she has pooed herself
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but I think she has done this since i have had her. She is sound in walk and trot and lunges / long reins well and forward. I have tried pro biotic with the thought of ulcers and mare suppliments for general moodyness the chrio was out on sat and said she looked freer in the shoulders and that the attitude could just be learnt behavour but as much as i dont want to go looking for a problem its like I have a different horse to what i bought. My thoughts have ranged from kissing spine - bone spavin - psd? But i just dont know, does anyone have any words of wisdom at the moment I am thinking a couple of weeks of attempting ridden work to see if there s any change in behavour if not a course of bute maybe to see if its pain related? Then obviously xrayed etc but I do find vets quite frustrating in this situation as the response she is sound so it must be behavoural doesnt help me, am i looking for nothing? Am I going crazy, is she having me on?What should I do from here?

Thankyou if you have managed to get this far, pie and gravy if your hungry although im meant to be on a diet
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I really would appreciate any help.

Terri
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that sounds like a nightmare, and very familiar.

Bute test is a very good idea. But it has to be pretty substantial, and if you do it keep a written diary of what you feel day to day. Try her on regumate and see if it makes a difference (do this separately to the bute mind!).

If the bute seems to make her better, then get her referred to a good lameness specialist for a full work up and possibly a bone scan (sintigraphy).

If the regumate makes a difference, have her ovaries looked at to make sure nothing nasty there, and continue with regumate!
Good luck. It is so hard with cases like this because the vets have to trust your perceptions as a rider. It helps to have a vet who knows you and your abilities.
 
I'm inclined to go with your gut instinct. Have you had her blood tested? A friends horse acted similarly before going completely bronco and having her off quite badly. he was blood tested and it found high enzme levels and low white blood cell counts which pointed to a liver issue. She had the chiro out who felt it was tight across the buttocks which made the shoulder stiff. also when being tacked up it was pulling back and being very cross. the vet felt it was due to the girth pushing the inernal organs back causing pain. he would walk out for a bit then for no reason kick off severely, bucking and spinning. he has been off work for a few months whilst his owner got to the bottom of the prob (and she recovered) and has had some very expensive liver tonic with regular blood tests. he should come back into work soon. they think he must have eaten something poisonous (though fields are scrupulously kept). i would go to your vet or even change vet with a full list of symptoms and push for blood tests if only to put your mind at rest. they may be looking at it with a mind on the thoroughpins but with a clear list then they may view the whole problem. Whereabouts are you based?
 
I feel so sorry for your and dont know what to offer in the way of explanation as to whats going on with your mare. There are a lot of posts on at the moment about changes in mares behaviour, probably due to them all coming into season. Could it be to do with her ovaries and shes in pain at this time.? Others have mentioned having mares ovaries scanned to look for problems. Could you have a second opinion by another vet? It does sound like your mare is in pain somewhere. I know its frustrating as my own mare has had a lameness problem over the last 10 months and we only got to the bottom of it when she went for an MRI scan, I just knew that there was another problem going on with her. Turned out to be a tear in her deep dig flexor tendon, deep within her hoof. We wouldnt have found the answer any other way. Everything you describe seems to me to point to a pain related issue and it sounds like she doesnt really want you on her back atall.

I really hope you get to the bottom of this and if it were me, I would look to another vet if your not getting the answers from your current one.

Good luck with this.
 
Yes I know, and the difficulty is that I have not owned her for long enough or had her in work long enough to be the best judge of character but before the wheels fell off she would hack anywhere on her own and was always forward going. Other things I did note was that she was sliding behind when walking on roads something she never did before I could also hear that she would occasionally drag a toe.

Is there a a hormone test I can do if we go down the regumate route or is it best just to go with a suck it and see attitude? Said horse is fully insured so if maybe the bute made a difference and I decided to go all the way am I still covered by insurance if they find nothing? This is just all so frrustrating
 
Thank you for the replies

Rebels - I am in Lichfield staffs my vets has quite a well respected equine practice. It is interesting you mention liver though as that is something I had not thought of before. Bloods would surely be a fairly simple thing to do too.

I do honestly believe that it is pain related but I just dont know where, I am having a lesson tomorrow so that my instructor can get on should we run into problems (thats what we pay them for right
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danger money)
 
Im not sure of a hormone test being available, thats a question for a vet. I would speak to them anyway before going down the bute route as you could be masking something else that could be going on. Just reminds me of my friends gelding, he was good to hack out etc then had a personality transformation. Wouldnt go forwards, hated going downhill and was generally very evasive. After a full lameness work up it was found that his hind leg suspensory ligaments in both legs were the problem. He had to have an operation to reduce the thickening in them and box rest. Hes a different horse now but had learned bad behaviour as a result of the pain. If your fully insured then you have nothing to lose but to investigate further. Give your Insurance co a ring to check the cover you have.

It is frustrating for you and I do hope you get some answers soon.
 
Oh and just to add my friends horse would lunge very nicely on a pessoa and was desperate to jump on a lunge. it was only when ridden that he was a problem.
 
I don't know whether you have ever come across any posts about my chestnut mare, Grace, but you could have described her just now and how she was last year.

She just would not go forwards from my leg, she would buck and kick out at the leg no matter what I tried and she was so unhappy in her work. I knew she was 100% fine because she had been through surgeries, but the problem persisted.

I had her ovaries scanned in the spring and it showed one was slightly larger than the other. She went on Regumate from June to October and while there was some improvement, it was not enough.

I gave her one last chance and tried a new trainer... She really changed how I rode her and the improvements started to come one by one. My mare had become stuck, and didn't feel she could go forwards so that was where the bucking and kicking out came from. She would also hump her back and just feel as though she was not going anywhere, a really horrible feeling.

The trained had me bowling her around the arena in almost a medium trot and canter, ignoring what the front end was doing, and just getting her to go forwards without a fight. It took a few weeks and a lot of persistance from me (main thing was not to pull back no matter what she was doing) and then all of a sudden she just settled and opened up. In November I changed her from a loose ring into a fixed cheek (a baucher) and the transformation was complete. She is barely recognisable now to the horse she was last year!
 
I think until you are certain in your own mind that she is perfectly pain free then you will never be able to put your heart into pushing her through a problem. Bear in mind if you do try a bute trial then she will probably act up for a few sessions in anticipation if it is pain related. I think best to go to your vet again.
 
I really feel your pain! I have had my mare nearly 3 years. She has always been difficult and until the last 9 months was a nightmare to get any work out of at all - she would rush with head in the air, could hardly get her to bend, circle etc and she would buck/bolt in canter (it sounds better than it felt at the time). I have gone through 4 instructors, 3 saddles, countless number of bits, teeth done lots and back checked by both vets and a back person. She has also been sent away to be reschooled.
In the last 9 months she had been gradually working better and we even got to go to some dressage tests. I tried a new instructor about 2 months ago and she was beginning to work much better from behind. 2 weeks ago I was amazed how springy she felt and how consistent she was coming into an outline yet come Friday this week she felt like she wouldn't go forward and was almost wanting to rear. On Saturday she reared full up and I fell off (fortunately to the side).
I just don't know where to go next - is it hormonal, a one off napping incident, pain? I think the worst thing with horses is the just not knowing. I am going to speak to my instructor tomorrow and see how she goes and then the next step if she is no better is the vets for me for a full check over. This is the last stage for me I'm afriad as I have always said rearing is a no no. Keep us updated on your progress and pm me if possible with updates, I'll let you know how mine gets on. Mine had done bunny hops before if she was unsuare what I was asking but this was a full rear from an aid for canter which couldn't have been more clear.
 
Sounds like a horrible situation
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I would be inclined to go full investigation route to find the real reason of the behaviour.
I don't really have an idea of what it could be but as you say she walks wide behind and can drag a toe...maybe look into sacroiliac joint problems...I have a horse with SI strain and although he has never had behavioural problems as such I've been spending ages reading up on all possible SI injuries and some people describe a lot of issues alike yours.
I hope you get to the bottom of it.
 
I had a similar problem with my gelding last year. He gradually got more and more grumpy to handle, over a couple of months it got so bad that he'd kick if you touched him and reared if you got on...i went through everything, back, teeth, blood test, uring test, worm count, lameness work up, a few weeks in the field, trying to work him through...etc etc. Throughout this he still looked in perfect condition, maintained weight, glossy coat etc.

Turns out he has gastric ulcers. According to my vet a lot of horses with gastric ulcers only display behavioural symptoms instead of the physical ones like weight loss that we'd expect. So it is easily missed. A course of gastroguard and the little chap was back to his usual happy self.

I'm not saying yours has ulcers, but if it were me and mine was reacting like yours i'd like to eliminate pain as a factor before i assumed she was taking the 'proverbial'.
 
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