I'm so surprised - Did you know ?

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BBH

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I recently sold a horse to include only the head collar he stood in.

However when they had left I noticed his tack had gone when I had expressly said it wasn't going with him. We have CCTV but the police said nothing could be done as its a civil matter. These people could just say I gave them permission and the police advice was to steal it back.

So theory anyone on a livery yards could have their stuff stolen and the police won't be interested :(


Makes it doubly necessary for you to trust your livery mates. Even if they are on CCTV taking your stuff it is no good as they could say you allowed them to take the items.

I hadn't realised this.
 
Doesn't surprise me at all.

My friend's car was stolen after thieves entered her home (she was in, but in another room, so door was unlocked), took the car keys (and various other things from the kitchen) and drove off.

The police were called but said it was her fault as the door was open. So, apparently it's also okay for people to enter your home and take your things if you haven't locked yourself in...

I keep my tack in my car and house, which are both locked!
 
I am shocked - since when was theft a civil matter? But if they are no going to take any action you have got to go through the small claims court. I often send non-paying customers the completed County Court forms (which you can fill in on-line) and a "pay up now or else" letter letting them know that a claim is being prepared ready for Court and it's never failed yet. That might work......
 
amymay said:
When does theft become a legal matter then??
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Well it all seems to get very complicated and I asked this . I was told that a thief in your house will be dealt with because

a, they are in a place they shouldn't be ( whereas in my case the purchasers had a valid reason for being on my yard )

b, forensic evidence will be taken to prove the person was there.

I don't really see the difference tbh theft in my book is when the legitimate legal owner of something says its been stolen.
 
Scumbags that people are. I think i would be pestering higher authorities in the police force until something was done. It's ridiculous that they can't even give you and decent advice on how to resolve it. You can bet your life if you stole it back you would be getting arrested.
 
The police are talking rot to get themselves out of some work.

Theft is a criminal matter. It may be difficult to prove but that is their problem. Presumably if you have a receipt that says to be sold with only his headcollar or not including tack then that is pretty good evidence that this should not have been taken.

You will need a crime number for your insurance so get back to the police. If they won't follow it up you may need to make a formal complaint.
 
sally2008 said:
I am shocked - since when was theft a civil matter? But if they are no going to take any action you have got to go through the small claims court. I often send non-paying customers the completed County Court forms (which you can fill in on-line) and a "pay up now or else" letter letting them know that a claim is being prepared ready for Court and it's never failed yet. That might work......
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Yes you can go through the small claims court but that comes at a cost with no guarantee of success so if they please povity you'll prob get back 50p a month.

A couple of big burly lads worked a lot more efficiently and I have my belongings back.
 
Oh the other thing the police said was that my tack would have been classed as theft if these people tried to sell it on ' as that would be intent to deprive me of it permanently' ????????? They can take it because they could argue they've borrowed it but if they sell on it well ..........

How could you ever prove that though.

Law is hard to fathom sometimes and seems weighed in favour of thieves.
 
Persuing the matter with the police doesn't stop you going through the small claims court if you don't recover your belongings.

Complain to the police.

On the analysis they gave the OP thefts would also be "non-crimes" when perpetrated by distraction burglers since they are invited into your home. If they give you this explanation again ask them if they will follow it up when someone says they are going to read grannies meter and actually nick her lifesavings while they are there.
 
Katt said:
The police are talking rot to get themselves out of some work.

Theft is a criminal matter. It may be difficult to prove but that is their problem.


See to me it's not difficult to prove, they are on CCTV and me as the rightful owner is saying its stolen.
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sally2008 said:
Very true LHS, I'd go for the baseball bat routine everytime for private matters but I was assuming this was a business transaction?
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I guess it was tbh, they bought a horse from me, but even so they weren't getting away with £1300 worth of kit.
 
LHS said:
Oh the other thing the police said was that my tack would have been classed as theft if these people tried to sell it on ' as that would be intent to deprive me of it permanently' ????????? They can take it because they could argue they've borrowed it but if they sell on it well ..........

How could you ever prove that though.

Law is hard to fathom sometimes and seems weighed in favour of thieves.
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Intention to permanently deprive is require to establish theft but the suggestion that you would lend your expensive tack to a complete stranger is daft. If someone nicks your car off your drive are the police going to believe that you lent it to a stranger????

While this is a good arguement for making sure you lock stuff up I am gobsmacked by the reaction of the police, this isn't the law, this is the police being shockingly lazy and trying to make their own stats look good.

They should take a report and follow it up and then leave it to the CPS to decide whether there is enough evidence to prosecute but of course if they record it and don't successfully resolve it their stats look bad. They are acting as judge and jury and that is unacceptable.

Complain to the chief inspector of your local force. You may also want to write to your local newspaper.
 
It makes you sick doesn't it. A few years ago we had a chap who we knew through a friend come and saw up some firewood on our land using our chainsaw. He drove off with the chainsaw and when we telephoned the police saying that the chainsaw had been stolen they weren't interested because, like you say, he was invited onto our land. Unbelievable really isn't it!
 
And that is how New Labour managed to claim for so many years that crime rates were falling..................................... :rolleyes:
 
surely you were present when they paid and collected the horse? or left instructions and a receiopt to be given to purchasers on collection?
 
It wouldn't surprise me- my parents had hteir caravan stolen a month ago- hitch lock smashed off in 30 seconds, wheel clamp angle grinded off in 20 minutes, all on cctv, clear images of both the people & the car (barring the reg plate which they'd covered up), electric gates smashed down. Footage taken to the police who couldn't have cared less and said because the car wasn't identifiable there was precious little they could do.

Sorry to hear about your tack :(
 
The reason the police are saying it is a civil matter is because there is no way you could prove theft unless you had first proved that under the contract the tack belonged to you. That would need to be settled in contract law (civil) before a criminal case could proceed.

Unless you have a really clear contract, they could then argue that they misunderstood the contract (even after you win a civil case) and the much higher burden of proof for a criminal conviction would not be satisfied. Frustrating as it is for you, it would therefore be a complete waste of police time for them to investigate the matter.

As I think you want the tack back rather than particularly wanting your horse's new owners convicting as criminals, a civil case is actually what you need. I would threaten small claims court to see if they fold, and beyond that you will actually need to weigh what evidence you have and the cost/time involved to see whether it is worth actually pursuing the claim.

It was completely wrong of the police to say that you cant prove intention to permanently deprive if they havent sold it, but as you couldnt prove their bad intentions anyway, it is somwhat irrelevant in practice.
 
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