Impartial advice needed on my situation.

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Ilovefoals

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Bare with me, it's a long one.....

We bought our property with land and stables nearly 4yrs ago. We were very naive and didn't see past the facilities and didn't really think about what we were getting ourselves into. We convinced ourselves having the horses at home would be easy (had 2 then) and that the huge mortgage would be easily covered by the fact we were no longer paying livery.

Well, of course it only took a year before we realised just how much hard work was involved in having your horses at home, managing land, having no machinery so doing everything by hand, the fact that you can never get away from the place on hols etc. We also have been struggling majorly financially due to the constant rising costs, the fact I'm a total soft touch and ended up with 5 horses, vets bills, insurance, feed, hay etc etc. We also ended up having to add more money to our already massive mortagage to fix our very dodgy leaky roof and have only been able to renovate half the house (it was in a bad way when we bought it) due to lack of funds.

I'm also now suffering with a bulging disc in my back, causing me excruciating leg pain. I've been getting physio and acupuncture but so far it's not helped and I'm taking huge amounts of painkillers to get through the day. I work night shift and can't be off sick or our bills wont be covered and I'm finding it crippling trying to see to the horses on a daily basis. I have 2 of them in and the other 3 out but can't have them all in as too much work but can't have them all out as fields are so flooded and muddy, they'll be ruined. My hubby works very long hours to make ends meet and tries to help me with the horses but he really grudges having them as it's making life so hard :( I feel like my 6yr old daughter suffers as I'm either knackered, in pain or outside doing the horses and I feel like I'm not spending enough time with her.

So, we have decided to sell up and try to halve our mortagage costs plus other bills (such as heating oil which is so expensive) and keep 2 out of the 5 horses in livery instead. Saving us money and more importantly our sanity and health. I have found homes for 2 of the 3 that I need to rehome. One is from WHW so will be going back there, the other my friend has bought. The problem is the 3rd mare. She'll be 18 next year and I've had her since a 5yr old. She's bred 3 foals in her life as well as competed at dressage to elementary. She's a lovely mare but hasn't been ridden for well over a year now due to spavin and arthritis in her shoulder. She's so easy to do but I can't find anyone that will take her. I'd give her away free to a friend if I could just so I'd know where she was, but all my friends already have horses and have no room for her. I don't want to advertise her free to a good home to just anyone in case she ended up somewhere dodgy. I've left a message at WHW but no answer yet, I think she's too old for the blood bank and that's all I can think of to do.

My friend suggested I should pts as I don't want her passed from pillar to post but the thought makes me cry my eyes out. I really just want some unbiased advice on what I should do. Please?!
 
What about actually selling her? So, not free to a good home, but put a price on her. advertise her as a companion. Other than that maybe it would be the kindest thing to PTS, as you dont want her passed around.
 
If you still had your yard I was going to suggest getting someone in to help you. I know someone with the same situation and I go in and help her twice a week which helps immensely.

However as that's not the case, I'd advertise her as companion. Or what about your other two? Could one of them go out on loan?
 
We still have our place, it's going on the market soon. The 2 boys will stay here til it's sold and then will go to my friends livery yard. The other 2 go next week. It's just the 18yr old mare I need to home. We are utterly skint so there is no way I can afford to get someone in to help :( If I could rehome her, I could cope with the 2 boys til we sell. She's out at the mo with the other 2 mares but when they go next week, she'll have to come in and that's creating more work for me mucking out! Kinda defeating the purpose of lessening my work load.
 
sounds like a stressful situation - yes managing your own land etc is a very expensive and busy thing to do and it's too easy to accumulate horses and then regret it.

My only suggestion is could you not sell one of the 2 that you say are going into livery? I couldn't pts a mare that had served me so well. Or how about retirement livery for her - likely cost you £30 pw. There may be someone out there who would take on a horse with an arthritic shoulder, bur do you not feel you owe her a retirement after owning her for so many years?
 
I could try asking money for her to rehome her to put off folk wanting a free horse, but realistically I don't think coming into winter, anyone will want to buy a retired horse that's not rideable :(
 
Ilovefoals said:
We still have our place, it's going on the market soon. The 2 boys will stay here til it's sold and then will go to my friends livery yard. The other 2 go next week. It's just the 18yr old mare I need to home. We are utterly skint so there is no way I can afford to get someone in to help :( If I could rehome her, I could cope with the 2 boys til we sell. She's out at the mo with the other 2 mares but when they go next week, she'll have to come in and that's creating more work for me mucking out! Kinda defeating the purpose of lessening my work load.
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I am sorry to sound harsh but if you are moaning about mucking out 1 horse - why have horses?? I work f/t and have my own land and have 4 to do along with 2 kids at home and 3 dogs - it's hard work BUT you know that when you take on horses!!
 
Yes, I do feel I owe it to her but I also owe it to myself to have some kind of enjoyment. I've had a nightmare time with horses, losing one as a 4yr old, another that totally erroded my confidence and have now landed lucky with a fab 4yr old who has made me realise what I've been missing out on the past 5yrs. The other gelding is a 22yr old and is my daughters pony. He has cushings too so even if I broke my daughters heart to sell him, I can't see any takers. I'm just feeling absolutely awful over it all but after struggling for 3yrs, I've just reached the end of my tether. The only other option is to offer her to a stud as she produces gorgeous babies, one of whom won at the RHS this year. But again, is that fair to her?
 
Huge sympathies, it's a situation I realise I could all too easily end up in.

Please think very carefully before getting desperate and loaning her out. I've just found out that one of the ponies I picked up the other day who had been dumped on a common and was due for destruction was actually on loan to the person who dumped him:( Goodness knows where his owner thinks he is:(

Might I just say that unless your house is on the market very cheaply at the moment it's not an immediate decision. I realise that's no help going into winter with all the effort involved of keeping them at home and the cost of heating etc.

With regards to keeping costs down over the winter if two are gone you can presumably leave the three out as at the moment. Then house-wise, decide which rooms you actually NEED to use and switch the heating off in the others, then pin blankets over the windows in the unused rooms and blankets or curtains in front of the doors to draught proof. Hang blankets or heavy curtain linings inside curtains in the other rooms, preferably choose one room to keep warm and make everyone wear extra jumpers and thicker socks in the rest of the house. Add extra layers of bedding and don't heat the bedrooms - when we were utterly skint we had no heating except the Rayburn in the kitchen, every night all our clothes for the next day were hung up in front of it meaning that we had the luxury of putting on pre-warmed clothes, great:D Get your daughter some warm pyjamas and dressing gown.

It's amazing how low you can get your food bills with imaginative use of cheaply available stuff from the farm gate like sacks of spuds, onions, carrots, parsnips etc.

I hope the above doesn't sound condescending but I know it will be tough until you sell. GOod luck
 
YasandCrystal said:
I am sorry to sound harsh but if you are moaning about mucking out 1 horse - why have horses?? I work f/t and have my own land and have 4 to do along with 2 kids at home and 3 dogs - it's hard work BUT you know that when you take on horses!!
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I've always had my horses in livery so I didn't realise how much work was involved with field maintainence etc etc. And if you read my post it's not that I just can't be arsed, I'm in constant pain with my back and am taking so many painkillers that I'm like a flippin zombie. What kind of life is that?! It's a combination of the whole situation of the work, the pain, no money, no help, and I'm trying to make it a better situation by selling up and reducing the number of horses and my work load. So yes, you do sound harsh!
 
YasandCrystal said:
My only suggestion is could you not sell one of the 2 that you say are going into livery? I couldn't pts a mare that had served me so well. Or how about retirement livery for her - likely cost you £30 pw. There may be someone out there who would take on a horse with an arthritic shoulder, bur do you not feel you owe her a retirement after owning her for so many years?
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I have 1 retired brood mare (23) and another 2 retired former hunters(19 & 21.) Amongst all my other horses, they don't take much work or expense - and they're all pretty sound. But I think a few years into the future and I'll have another 3-4 brood mares to retire. I don't have enough space for any new young brood mares to come into the herd - and have had to sell a few I would have liked to keep. When I get to that point, I WILL put a couple of the older ones down. I owe them that - a peaceful end at home because I would never sell or loan them to an uncertain future! It will hurt - and I'll feel guilty - but it will HAVE to be done!

Why on earth should the OP sell one of the horses she or her children(?) ride to keep an arthritic old horse for a couple more years?? The decision to PTS this mare will HAVE to be made in the next few years when her quality of life declines - it won't be much easier then - but there will be less 'guilt' attached. But that shouldn't be the case (the guilt, that is, for bringing the decision forward.) Putting a horse to sleep doesn't hurt it at all! It only hurts the person who has to make a sensible decision!!
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
Huge sympathies, it's a situation I realise I could all too easily end up in.

Please think very carefully before getting desperate and loaning her out. I've just found out that one of the ponies I picked up the other day who had been dumped on a common and was due for destruction was actually on loan to the person who dumped him:( Goodness knows where his owner thinks he is:(

Might I just say that unless your house is on the market very cheaply at the moment it's not an immediate decision. I realise that's no help going into winter with all the effort involved of keeping them at home and the cost of heating etc.

With regards to keeping costs down over the winter if two are gone you can presumably leave the three out as at the moment. Then house-wise, decide which rooms you actually NEED to use and switch the heating off in the others, then pin blankets over the windows in the unused rooms and blankets or curtains in front of the doors to draught proof. Hang blankets or heavy curtain linings inside curtains in the other rooms, preferably choose one room to keep warm and make everyone wear extra jumpers and thicker socks in the rest of the house. Add extra layers of bedding and don't heat the bedrooms - when we were utterly skint we had no heating except the Rayburn in the kitchen, every night all our clothes for the next day were hung up in front of it meaning that we had the luxury of putting on pre-warmed clothes, great:D Get your daughter some warm pyjamas and dressing gown.

It's amazing how low you can get your food bills with imaginative use of cheaply available stuff from the farm gate like sacks of spuds, onions, carrots, parsnips etc.

I hope the above doesn't sound condescending but I know it will be tough until you sell. GOod luck
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Thank you. Not condecending at all! Yes, I suppose with 3 of them I could leave them out til the house is sold. I may have to take in the 22 yr old but that shouldn't be a problem. I'm just worrying that if the house sells quick, I'll not have found a place for the mare.
 
Ilovefoals said:
I've always had my horses in livery so I didn't realise how much work was involved with field maintainence etc etc. And if you read my post it's not that I just can't be arsed, I'm in constant pain with my back and am taking so many painkillers that I'm like a flippin zombie. What kind of life is that?! It's a combination of the whole situation of the work, the pain, no money, no help, and I'm trying to make it a better situation by selling up and reducing the number of horses and my work load. So yes, you do sound harsh!
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Ok sorry so if you are in constant pain, surely riding can be no fun for you? So why keep the ridden horse? Our situations change - yes granted, but you can't come on a forum being selective about what you will keep and expect sympathy over the old mare. It doesn't make sense to me.
 
I'm sorry but an 18yo mare with medical issues that you have had since a 5yo, in my eyes you OWE it to her to do the right thing, and that is not giving her away as a freebie.

In your shoes I'd be advertising her for loan as a companion, kept locally, and be fully committed to keeping a close eye on her while on loan as her owner.

If you cannot find a suitable home, or you are not prepared to fully vet and keep check on a loan home, then I do think you should consider PTS.
 
JanetGeorge said:
I have 1 retired brood mare (23) and another 2 retired former hunters(19 & 21.) Amongst all my other horses, they don't take much work or expense - and they're all pretty sound. But I think a few years into the future and I'll have another 3-4 brood mares to retire. I don't have enough space for any new young brood mares to come into the herd - and have had to sell a few I would have liked to keep. When I get to that point, I WILL put a couple of the older ones down. I owe them that - a peaceful end at home because I would never sell or loan them to an uncertain future! It will hurt - and I'll feel guilty - but it will HAVE to be done!

Why on earth should the OP sell one of the horses she or her children(?) ride to keep an arthritic old horse for a couple more years?? The decision to PTS this mare will HAVE to be made in the next few years when her quality of life declines - it won't be much easier then - but there will be less 'guilt' attached. But that shouldn't be the case (the guilt, that is, for bringing the decision forward.) Putting a horse to sleep doesn't hurt it at all! It only hurts the person who has to make a sensible decision!!
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Thank you Janet. I'm glad you understand my situation. I feel like utter rubbish (insert stronger word there) for even thinking it, but I do not want to ever lose track of where she is. I'd rather know she was safe, even if it's because she's gone to rainbow bridge. I guess I'm just after some understanding and someone to tell me it'll be ok and I'm not the worst person in the world. I love that mare to bits and I'm sobbing writing this. I'm the least lazy person ever and if it were just a case of hard graft, then fine. But it's so much more complicated than that. I think after struggling for 3yrs, living hand tomouth to afford to keep them and all the bad luck I've had with horses, asking for an easier life and a chance to enjoy riding again is not too much?!
 
If you are in that much pain with your back - get to the doctor make a massive fuss - I ended up collapsed in the surgery with the pain as I was in the same situation as you with a bulging disc and raging sciatica - and get them to refer you to a specialist -you need that disc out! I was back in the saddle within 3 months after surgery with very little pain, and 10 years on my back is good, and rarely gives me trouble

Pain is an extremely debilitating thing - it gets you down, makes you feel awful and affects your perception of everyone and everything - including the situation you are in.

I think if you can be pain-free and mobile again, things may not seem so bad and you could probably hang onto your house/land.

Good luck to you.
 
YasandCrystal said:
Ok sorry so if you are in constant pain, surely riding can be no fun for you? So why keep the ridden horse? Our situations change - yes granted, but you can't come on a forum being selective about what you will keep and expect sympathy over the old mare. It doesn't make sense to me.
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I'm not asking for sympathy, just advice. The riding helps my back because it helps to build my core and stabilise my back muscles. I'm not galavanting about the country side, jumping and competing, I'm riding gently 2 or 3 times a week.
 
Dee O'Dorant said:
Huge sympathies, it's a situation I realise I could all too easily end up in.

Please think very carefully before getting desperate and loaning her out. I've just found out that one of the ponies I picked up the other day who had been dumped on a common and was due for destruction was actually on loan to the person who dumped him:( Goodness knows where his owner thinks he is:(

Might I just say that unless your house is on the market very cheaply at the moment it's not an immediate decision. I realise that's no help going into winter with all the effort involved of keeping them at home and the cost of heating etc.

With regards to keeping costs down over the winter if two are gone you can presumably leave the three out as at the moment. Then house-wise, decide which rooms you actually NEED to use and switch the heating off in the others, then pin blankets over the windows in the unused rooms and blankets or curtains in front of the doors to draught proof. Hang blankets or heavy curtain linings inside curtains in the other rooms, preferably choose one room to keep warm and make everyone wear extra jumpers and thicker socks in the rest of the house. Add extra layers of bedding and don't heat the bedrooms - when we were utterly skint we had no heating except the Rayburn in the kitchen, every night all our clothes for the next day were hung up in front of it meaning that we had the luxury of putting on pre-warmed clothes, great:D Get your daughter some warm pyjamas and dressing gown.

It's amazing how low you can get your food bills with imaginative use of cheaply available stuff from the farm gate like sacks of spuds, onions, carrots, parsnips etc.

I hope the above doesn't sound condescending but I know it will be tough until you sell. GOod luck
Click to expand...
I go for the saving on food to, if you are careful and you visit the supermarket at the right time you can buy stuff cheap, make sure you only ever buy stuff which is on offer. Buy a small sackful of potatoes for about £2.50. Most veg will store if unwashed.
Packed lunches. No alcohol. No magazines. No credit card unless you can pay it off immediately.
Live in one room, preferably the kitchen. You can turn off the fridge in winter [leave door open], store all perishable food in a cold place.
Cut right back on heating, make sure you are on the best tariff.
Mobiles phones ..... cheapo pay as you go. A lot of people do not have a landline these days, your local library offers facilities plus is well heated, and homework could be done there too!
Share the livery costs, is that not an option? Less work all round.
It will take quite a long time to sell and so on.
 
Hexx said:
If you are in that much pain with your back - get to the doctor make a massive fuss - I ended up collapsed in the surgery with the pain as I was in the same situation as you with a bulging disc and raging sciatica - and get them to refer you to a specialist -you need that disc out! I was back in the saddle within 3 months after surgery with very little pain, and 10 years on my back is good, and rarely gives me trouble

Pain is an extremely debilitating thing - it gets you down, makes you feel awful and affects your perception of everyone and everything - including the situation you are in.

I think if you can be pain-free and mobile again, things may not seem so bad and you could probably hang onto your house/land.

Good luck to you.
Click to expand...

Believe me, I've been making a fuss. The pain down my leg feels like my bone is on fire. When I take my quota of painkillers, it's a dull ache, but obviously I'm driving and working and can't always take them. They want to see if trying to get rid of the spasm in my back will lessen the pressure on my disc and reduce the pain that way. If not, it'll probably be injections or surgery. You are right in that pain is debilitating. It wears you down to the point where I'm utterly depressed and not seeing any easy ways out :(
 
ihatework said:
I'm sorry but an 18yo mare with medical issues that you have had since a 5yo, in my eyes you OWE it to her to do the right thing, and that is not giving her away as a freebie.

In your shoes I'd be advertising her for loan as a companion, kept locally, and be fully committed to keeping a close eye on her while on loan as her owner.

If you cannot find a suitable home, or you are not prepared to fully vet and keep check on a loan home, then I do think you should consider PTS.
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Trust me, I have been trying everything to find the right home for her with no success. That's why I said I didn't want to just give her away to any random but to a friend, but no one can have her. If I could find a loan home for her then great! Of course I'd be willing to keep a close eye on her, where did I say I wasn't prepared to do that? But I've tried, for months, and I have had no success!
 
Of course I'd be willing to keep a close eye on her, where did I say I wasn't prepared to do that?
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I don't think Ihatework was implying that you weren't. Just giving you the impartial advice that you were asking for.
 
If I was in your situation, I would PTS. You would not be worrying what happened to her. Though I probably wouldnt do it just quite yet; as your in so much pain and unhappy, you will need your mind clearer for when its done.
 
If the other two are going can you not turn the remaining three out and save on work and bedding? That would be the same number out as before. I would see when the house sells and ever sell one of the others or have her pts. I'd rather know she was loved til the end than disappear on loan or something. If I couldn't keep her myself I'd not put her on to someone else especially a friend but that's just my opinion.
 
Miss L Toe said:
I go for the saving on food to, if you are careful and you visit the supermarket at the right time you can buy stuff cheap, make sure you only ever buy stuff which is on offer. Buy a small sackful of potatoes for about £2.50. Most veg will store if unwashed.
Packed lunches. No alcohol. No magazines. No credit card unless you can pay it off immediately.
Live in one room, preferably the kitchen. You can turn off the fridge in winter [leave door open], store all perishable food in a cold place.
Cut right back on heating, make sure you are on the best tariff.
Mobiles phones ..... cheapo pay as you go. A lot of people do not have a landline these days, your local library offers facilities plus is well heated, and homework could be done there too!
Share the livery costs, is that not an option? Less work all round.
It will take quite a long time to sell and so on.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice. I did take on a diy livery to help out with my horses for a low cost in return. She ended up rarely coming up and I had to see to her horses too! Definitely made things worse. I was probably unlucky but having to ask her to leave put me right off ever trying it again :(
 
FfionWinnie said:
If the other two are going can you not turn the remaining three out and save on work and bedding? That would be the same number out as before. I would see when the house sells and ever sell one of the others or have her pts. I'd rather know she was loved til the end than disappear on loan or something.
Click to expand...

Yes, I could turn them out but again it's not straight forward. The 22yr old would definitely need to come in during the bad weather and the mare needs to be seperate from the 4yr old gelding as she's a terrible flirt (since having a foal by natural covering) and when they are in together, she's constantly hassling him. He's ripped her brand new rug already! I was thinking about getting a marble put in her as she's so obsessed with him, I don't think it's good for her mental health!
 
I'm with Janet! There is no shame in putting to sleep an arthritic older horse. Her quality of life will decline as she gets older, and in a way, it would be nicer to do the deed before she looks like she needs it. If I had the choice of rehoming or putting to sleep a horse that couldn't be ridden - I'd choose the latter option every time. Better a day/week/month/year too soon, than keeping her going because you don't think she's uncomfortable enough to justify it yet. Don't feel guilty about sending her on her way with dignity while shes still happy and comfortable.
 
Miss L Toe said:
I go for the saving on food to, if you are careful and you visit the supermarket at the right time you can buy stuff cheap, make sure you only ever buy stuff which is on offer. Buy a small sackful of potatoes for about £2.50. Most veg will store if unwashed.
Packed lunches. No alcohol. No magazines. No credit card unless you can pay it off immediately.
Live in one room, preferably the kitchen. You can turn off the fridge in winter [leave door open], store all perishable food in a cold place.
Cut right back on heating, make sure you are on the best tariff.
Mobiles phones ..... cheapo pay as you go. A lot of people do not have a landline these days, your local library offers facilities plus is well heated, and homework could be done there too!
Share the livery costs, is that not an option? Less work all round.
It will take quite a long time to sell and so on.
Click to expand...

This is well meaning advice but the whole family has to be on board and I don't think OP's husband is up for it from the tone of her post.
Pain makes things just seem overwhelming and living on beans in the dark to keep horses only works if everyone in the family is wholly committed to it.
OP I am sorry you are in this situation but there's no way I would rehome the mare unless it was to a close friend in your shoes I would PTS for me the risk of her ending up crippled with her arthritis in a field or in some other awful situation is just too high .
JanetGeorges post said it all .
Best wishes to you and I hope your back settles .
 
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