Improving training/professionalism/the industry?

[teapot]

Did anyone see the post Talland put up on fb yesterday re this:

'How can we move Equestrian training and professionalism forward to the next phase? Covid-19 has shown there is an appetite for people to learn and experiment with their riding and training. We need to encourage the modern competition/teacher and all encompassing Equestrians. This is paramount to ensure the continuous development of all Equestrian disciplines. Ideas welcome.'


Thoughts?

 

[stormox]

Im not even sure what they're asking...

 

[milliepops]

Yeah I can't quite get the meaning tbh. I gather from the previous post that she's had a bit of a ding dong with the bhs over a few things and there's concerns over exams and approval of centres but the post isn't very clear ?‍

 

[teapot]

Yeah I can't quite get the meaning tbh. I gather from the previous post that she's had a bit of a ding dong with the bhs over a few things and there's concerns over exams and approval of centres but the post isn't very clear ?‍

Yes! See I read it as what's missing in training and how do we (collectively) go about improving it?

 

[Cortez]

Well, you could start by following the lead of, say, the Germans or the Spanish who have truly professional, degree-level training programs and qualifications for trainers and instructors at their national centres. And before anyone says it, the BHS is not anywhere near the level that these programs are.

 

[teapot]

Well, you could start by following the lead of, say, the Germans or the Spanish who have truly professional, degree-level training programs and qualifications for trainers and instructors at their national centres. And before anyone says it, the BHS is not anywhere near the level that these programs are.

Not something I know anything about so please forgive the ignorant question. By degree level training, would that include a more theoretical academic side too?

 

[Orangehorse]

And the French and not forgetting Austria. Britain has't got a national centre of equestrian skills. What the BHS teaches is OK in theory, but I think we have all come across huge differences in interpretation.

And I have been to enough clinics and demonstrations to hear different theories, I have more than once said that I wish all the riding instructors could be shut in a room together and not come out until they all agreed on how to teach correct riding.

Reading that article about the Spanish Riding School, where new students are given a young stallion to produce - where in the UK could anyone do that?

There are of course some excellent coaches and riding instructors but there doesn't seem to be a really good career path.

 

[Flicker]

Teaching people to be good trainers is a start. Just because someone is a fabulous rider and has good competition results doesn’t make them a good trainer. Training is about communication, empathy, understanding how people learn, measuring outcomes and good planning. Not everyone can do it well.

And consumers (pupils) need to be pushing for greater consistency and credibility in our trainers. And that usually means using trainers who are qualified and meet industry standards.

 

[Cortez]

Not something I know anything about so please forgive the ignorant question. By degree level training, would that include a more theoretical academic side too?

There are four-year courses (shorter ones available too), and include all aspects of training, including driving, and training up to and beyond GP (by beyond I mean High School). Also breeding, saddlery, stud management, etc., and theory too. All aspects of the equine industry, utterly professional.

 

[milliepops]

And the French and not forgetting Austria. Britain has't got a national centre of equestrian skills. What the BHS teaches is OK in theory, but I think we have all come across huge differences in interpretation.

And I have been to enough clinics and demonstrations to hear different theories, I have more than once said that I wish all the riding instructors could be shut in a room together and not come out until they all agreed on how to teach correct riding.

Hmmm I'm torn on that because I don't think there is a single way to teach correctly. People have different learning styles. I do think that the bhsai level should be a stepping stone though not an end in itself. Lots of substandard AIs around me making a healthy living not improving their pupils from one year to the next. There appears to be a lack of depth of knowledge.

 

[teapot]

There are of course some excellent coaches and riding instructors but there doesn't seem to be a really good career path.

It's getting better - the new complete coaching pathway is better than the old way. That said, the new changes took a while to get approval from the Fellows and old Is... can't possibly change things can we?

 

[Orangehorse]

Hmmm I'm torn on that because I don't think there is a single way to teach correctly. People have different learning styles. I do think that the bhsai level should be a stepping stone though not an end in itself. Lots of substandard AIs around me making a healthy living not improving their pupils from one year to the next. There appears to be a lack of depth of knowledge.

Not a single way to teach, but to agree what to teach.

 

[Orangehorse]

There are four-year courses (shorter ones available too), and include all aspects of training, including driving, and training up to and beyond GP (by beyond I mean High School). Also breeding, saddlery, stud management, etc., and theory too. All aspects of the equine industry, utterly professional.

Sounds really good.
I'm going to contradict myself a bit here, having given the example of the Spanish Riding School given a horse to produce from scratch, as a "good thing." Because in the UK I think there is too much specialisation too soon and there should be more of an all round education, to include driving and other disciplines.

 

[ester]

TP it seems I have likely totally missed it but do they mean about covid showing people want to learn and experiment? People having video training instead or something else?

 

[teapot]

TP it seems I have likely totally missed it but do they mean about covid showing people want to learn and experiment? People having video training instead or something else?

From what I've seen from Talland's posts, and from what I've heard through my own centre, demands for training whether exam or otherwise has been on the up, both on site or in Talland's case over zoom for some people.

Whether that's because people have been on furlough - so money to spend and loads of free time, I don't know... I've done some theory sessions on zoom recently and they were 'well attended'.

Am sure there will be the odd person who's suddenly decided they want to train to teach/coach, but haven't quite thought how crap it is in the peeing rain in December when you cant feel your feet and the lights are on at 2pm.

 

[maggiestar]

I have a massive rant bubbling up inside me about BHS instructors but I'll spare you the full force! Suffice to say in all my years of riding lessons up to the age of 38, there was only ONE woman who taught me about outside leg, inside rein when doing a circle. I am not exaggerating when I say her lessons were a revelation.She let us work in open order and actually 'learn' how to ride. I can't thank her enough because she broke through some barriers. Why aren't BHS instructors doing this as a matter of course? I really hope that instruction levels have changed.

 

[maggiestar]

If anyone wants to hear my full, unedited rant, I'll be happy to oblige!! But why do instructors tell clients/students to do a 20 metre circle without telling them HOW? No wonder everyone is riding square shapes if instructors can't be bothered to teach.

 

[Flicker]

maggiestar, right! I was having a similar conversation with a local BHS trainer who is fabulous. She never uses phrases such as ‘working through’ because she says that to most people they mean little, and most people are too embarrassed to ask what they mean. Instead, she concentrates on explaining the relationship between what your body is doing and what the horse is doing. So simple, so effective. And yes, the four points of a circle!

Likewise, when I was trying to get my mare right last year, I enlisted the help of a trainer who is also a personal trainer. I needed to understand the relationship between the work we were doing with her and her musculoskeletal system. Sadly she was too broken, but it gave me a depth of knowledge of the equine anatomy and why we do exercises like lateral work that will be invaluable in the future.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I'd love it if they would lob out the BHS and introduce an international level of Equestrian education, rather like the international schools do with the Baccalaureate exams.
Wouldn't it be great if a big centre shook up the UK like this?

 

[Cortez]

I'd love it if they would lob out the BHS and introduce an international level of Equestrian education, rather like the international schools do with the Baccalaureate exams.
Wouldn't it be great if a big centre shook up the UK like this?

Yes, absolutely. IMO the BHS is very little better than useless. The original qualifications were set up to produce "useful grooms" after WWI and never really intended to educate future trainers.

I note that most people are focusing on the riding instructor aspect of qualification and training, whereas I think that the most important place to start in educating future professionals is in the training of the horse. Only someone who truly, deeply understands - and can achieve - the aesthetics, mechanics and process of training to the ultimate level is really qualified to teach how to achieve this, even if the pupil will not reach that standard.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Yes, absolutely. IMO the BHS is very little better than useless. The original qualifications were set up to produce "useful grooms" after WWI and never really intended to educate future trainers.

I note that most people are focusing on the riding instructor aspect of qualification and training, whereas I think that the most important place to start in educating future professionals is in the training of the horse. Only someone who truly, deeply understands - and can achieve - the aesthetics, mechanics and process of training to the ultimate level is really qualified to teach how to achieve this, even if the pupil will not reach that standard.

Yes!
Sections of exam:
Horse care and maintenance UK and Europe, basic, then a few levels upwards right up to yard managing (small yards and large yards), add in the rest such as veterinary care etc.
Same as above, but worldwide (would take into consideration different feed types and so so much more!)
Training the horse, basic level and then future exams right up to GP level
Rider training etc etc

 

[maggiestar]

maggiestar, right! I was having a similar conversation with a local BHS trainer who is fabulous. She never uses phrases such as ‘working through’ because she says that to most people they mean little, and most people are too embarrassed to ask what they mean. Instead, she concentrates on explaining the relationship between what your body is doing and what the horse is doing. So simple, so effective. And yes, the four points of a circle!

Likewise, when I was trying to get my mare right last year, I enlisted the help of a trainer who is also a personal trainer. I needed to understand the relationship between the work we were doing with her and her musculoskeletal system. Sadly she was too broken, but it gave me a depth of knowledge of the equine anatomy and why we do exercises like lateral work that will be invaluable in the future.

I think trainers like Mary Wanless are fabulous because they take that holistic approach and use meaningful language. What a shame about your mare but it's great you found a good trainer

 

[Shilasdair]

I don't teach any more, thank God.

There is no need for any instructors in the UK - all UK horse owners know far more intuitively than anyone can ever teach them.

 

[Shilasdair]

Yes!
Sections of exam:
Horse care and maintenance UK and Europe, basic, then a few levels upwards right up to yard managing (small yards and large yards), add in the rest such as veterinary care etc.
Same as above, but worldwide (would take into consideration different feed types and so so much more!)
Training the horse, basic level and then future exams right up to GP level
Rider training etc etc

I'm a bit confused, if I'm honest.
Are you describing the BHS pathways? What BHS level are you?
Or is this meant to be a wish list, of what your ideal exams would include?

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I'm a bit confused, if I'm honest.
Are you describing the BHS pathways? What BHS level are you?
Or is this meant to be a wish list, of what your ideal exams would include?

A wish list for future training, to actually encompass rather more than the BHS does at present. Envisaging more than basics on 1 same method of doing things. There isn't much in the UK that is specifically for training a horse from basics right through, is there?

 

[Shilasdair]

A wish list for future training, to actually encompass rather more than the BHS does at present. Envisaging more than basics on 1 same method of doing things. There isn't much in the UK that is specifically for training a horse from basics right through, is there?

What do the BHS exams currently cover then?

 

[teapot]

While I'm not the BHS's number one supporter, I do think some posters need to acqauint themselves with the new exam, sorry assessment, requirements, epsecially for Stage 3 and above.

They are somewhat different to the tweed and beagler, hands behind the back approach of the 80s and 90s.

 

[tristar]

why stop at the bhs, include farriery etc, lets up the whole system, standards

 

[tristar]

I don't teach any more, thank God.

There is no need for any instructors in the UK - all UK horse owners know far more intuitively than anyone can ever teach them.

hi shil, please explain further about intuition and uk riders

thnaks

 

[The Xmas Furry]

While I'm not the BHS's number one supporter, I do think some posters need to acqauint themselves with the new exam, sorry assessment, requirements, epsecially for Stage 3 and above.

They are somewhat different to the tweed and beagler, hands behind the back approach of the 80s and 90s.

They still don't go anywhere near what I'd like to see with regards to training horses from early to competition years. This particular part is very sadly lacking.

Before I get brick batted, yes, I have already seen the new requirements and no, I'm still not impressed with what has very recently come through stage 4, not at all. Obviously 1 person is not indicative, nor are 3 stage 3, but I was totally underwhelmed, honestly!

Shils, stop pressing buttons