In a bit of a pickle

[Asha]

We have the most adorable golden retriever. He is the most perfect dog in eveyway. Except with food.

He had bloat a couple of years ago,( he's now six), after getting into a whole bag of feed. Since that he's been susceptible to it.
He was castrated, and put on a bit of weight, so Hes been on low calorie food which has helped and the vet is now happy with his weight. However, since xmas he's been getting bloat 4 times a week. The vet recommended Hills Food for a couple of weeks, and then possibly back in to operate. Since he's been on the food, he has stopped bloating, but his poos are a bit loose.

I think the bloat has something to do with him supplementing his diet when he hangs around the stables, eating horse poo etc. So I've stopped him from doing this as well.

The other problem I have is, I work from home, and occasionally have to work away, when I'm away he's always poorly. He goes dull, looks in discomfort, and sometimes is sick. He's only like this when I'm away. His routine doesn't change and he isn't fed anything different.

So my question is, on the food, what do you recommend, at £69/bag it's prices, and his poos are loose. He loves the new food, and I add water to it.

On him being ill when I'm away, is he pining for me? Our builders reckon he is, what have I done wrong to make him like this ? How do I put it right.

At xmas our neighbour had a firework display for a full hour, since then he's been much more jumpy about loud noises, could this have contributed to both things ?

I'm willing to to try anything, and open to any critism.

Thanks

 

[ihatework]

Random thought but in humans those of an anxious disposition can see other medical symptoms interlinked (gastric issues are one). Once medicated/managed for anxiety other symptoms improve.

How that might be applicable to your dog and what you would do about it I'm not sure (I'm no dog expert), but something to possibly bare in mind

 

[CorvusCorax]

Bloat four times a week?!

In your position I'd get his stomach stitched and use a wet or raw diet. Muzzle him when out and about so he can't help himself.

Do not exercise or take him in the car or anything which could make him anxious or excited within one-two hours of feeding. Offer food and water in increments/small portions.

 

[Asha]

Bloat four times a week?!

In your position I'd get his stomach stitched and use a wet or raw diet. Muzzle him when out and about so he can't help himself.

Do not exercise or take him in the car or anything which could make him anxious or excited within one-two hours of feeding. Offer food and water in increments/small portions.

The vet wanted to try a change of diet before operating, and to be fair it has worked, not a single episode since we changed to hills food. He now gets 4 small meals a day, which are very wet. With 4 meals a day" it's hard to find time to exercise him now ! So after losing all his weight, it's highly probable that when we weigh him again he will have put the weight back on, especially as he cant have the diet food anymore. But the vet opinion is rather him a little over weight than bloating

The muzzle is a great idea, thanks

 

[twiggy2]

Bloat four times a week?!

In your position I'd get his stomach stitched and use a wet or raw diet. Muzzle him when out and about so he can't help himself.

Do not exercise or take him in the car or anything which could make him anxious or excited within one-two hours of feeding. Offer food and water in increments/small portions.

I agree with this but also wanted to say loose poos wont kill the dog but bloat can, so I would put up with the loose poos.
Regarding the dog being unsettled when you are there can you pay someone to house sit and encourage a strong bond between the dog and them, so they spend positive time together on at least a weekly basis even when you are not away

 

[Asha]

I agree with this but also wanted to say loose poos wont kill the dog but bloat can, so I would put up with the loose poos.
Regarding the dog being unsettled when you are there can you pay someone to house sit and encourage a strong bond between the dog and them, so they spend positive time together on at least a weekly basis even when you are not away

He's rarely alone, as my daughter works from home too, does he need a dog companion ? He gets on great with the cats, so talks to them regularly too.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I would ask for stomach stitching after the first incidence but that's only me.
Has he a dark den or crate or enclosed space he can go to when stressed?
I'd be looking at curtailing his movements when you're out so he can't pace around getting upset.
You could also look into something like a Thundershirt and there are lots of calmers on the market.

 

[twiggy2]

He's rarely alone, as my daughter works from home too, does he need a dog companion ? He gets on great with the cats, so talks to them regularly too.

does he look to your daughter in the same way he does to you?
dogs do sometimes form very strong bonds with just one or two people and whoever is going to be there when you are not needs to work at creating a bond (you may have to become less important to your dog), what would happen if another dog just stressed him out more? I don't think another dog is the answer but that is a question you need to ask yourself.

 

[Asha]

I would ask for stomach stitching after the first incidence but that's only me.
Has he a dark den or crate or enclosed space he can go to when stressed?
I'd be looking at curtailing his movements when you're out so he can't pace around getting upset.
You could also look into something like a Thundershirt and there are lots of calmers on the market.

He doesn't like crates, tried that when he had his cruciate ligament done, but he does like the space under the stairs, hadn't thought of that. I will look at the calmers. His first incident with the bloat was the worst, it's only now the vets are talking about stitching his stomach , will see what they think when we go back.
Thanks

 

[Asha]

does he look to your daughter in the same way he does to you?
dogs do sometimes form very strong bonds with just one or two people and whoever is going to be there when you are not needs to work at creating a bond (you may have to become less important to your dog), what would happen if another dog just stressed him out more? I don't think another dog is the answer but that is a question you need to ask yourself.

You are right, ref the other dog. I suppose I'm clutching at straws. Will work on getting my daughter to do more with him. She adores him, so I'm sure that won't be hard. She does a lot with him already, feeds him etc. But doesn't walk him. Maybe that's the answer .

 

[CorvusCorax]

Other things you can try are feeding from a raised stand/surface and putting rocks in his bowl or using a bowl with lumps and bumps that he has to eat around so not gulping and inhaling.
An older dog man I know throws a cup full of kibble all over the kennel floor so the dog has to go and find it and eat one piece at a time. Old fashioned I know but he's never had a bloat or torsion episode in a breed that is prone to it.

 

[Asha]

Other things you can try are feeding from a raised stand/surface and putting rocks in his bowl or using a bowl with lumps and bumps that he has to eat around so not gulping and inhaling.
An older dog man I know throws a cup full of kibble all over the kennel floor so the dog has to go and find it and eat one piece at a time. Old fashioned I know but he's never had a bloat or torsion episode in a breed that is prone to it.

Brilliant, since changing his diet ive started to put his feed bowl on top of one of the dinning chairs, good to know I'm doing that right. Thanks��

 

[Possum]

I started a thread about bloat a few months ago and had some really interesting replies, particularly from satinbaze who I recall had a bitch prone to bloat.

Interestingly, current research has shown that dogs fed from raised bowls actually have a higher chance of developing bloat than those fed from the ground - against everything we've ever thought, I think the link to the study was on my other thread.

Eta - found it!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?710802-How-gassy-is-your-dog

 

[satinbaze]

Here are a few tips on living with a bloating dog. My lily had a full GDV st 2 years old, double twist top and bottom of stomach. Vet did a belt loop gastropexy as this lasts a lot longer than stitching the stomach.
I always carry windeeze gel capsules with me and the slightest hint of an enlarged tummy I give her 2. Vets are aware and happy with this. The simethicone encourages burping and farting and gives you a few extra mins to get to the vets.
I feed raw as dry food makes lily gulp water which will then cause her to bloat. I never restrict water as that again makes her gulp.
Don't exercise for 1 hour before and 2 hours after a meal.
Always feed from the ground, now I know the old fashioned way was a raised bowl but the latest research carried out by perdu university is to feed from the ground.
Never give ice cubes or frozen food but feed at room temperature.
If anxious then Use a t touch anxiety wrap or a thunder shirt.
As far as a companion goes this depends on your dog. Lily's bloating episodes have reduced dramatically since I lost her mother. This totally amazed me as I thought lily would pine for Maya but in fact the opposite is true.
Living with a bloating dog is very stressful as you never know when a mad dash to the vets is called for.
Good luck

 

[Alec Swan]

What on earth has gone so wrong with dog-ownership and possibly upbringing, or maybe even breeding, where we need to be reliant upon such a complexity of systems, potions and general management in a simple effort to keep our dog alive?

How have we arrived at this state? I have never, over 50 years had a dog with any dietary problems, I've never had a dog with bloat or one which needed to be fed on a raised stand, and that's not one. The list of dogs includes Gundogs, Sheepdogs, Guard-dogs, Greyhounds, Coursing-dogs and Pet-dogs. Perhaps I've just been lucky and for many years.

Asha, this isn't a criticism of you, I just wonder how we've managed to devise a system which has quite so many casualties.

Alec.

 

[Asha]

I started a thread about bloat a few months ago and had some really interesting replies, particularly from satinbaze who I recall had a bitch prone to bloat.

Interestingly, current research has shown that dogs fed from raised bowls actually have a higher chance of developing bloat than those fed from the ground - against everything we've ever thought, I think the link to the study was on my other thread.

Eta - found it!
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?710802-How-gassy-is-your-dog

Thank you, that's a great read. I will stop feeding from the chair now.

 

[Asha]

Here are a few tips on living with a bloating dog. My lily had a full GDV st 2 years old, double twist top and bottom of stomach. Vet did a belt loop gastropexy as this lasts a lot longer than stitching the stomach.
I always carry windeeze gel capsules with me and the slightest hint of an enlarged tummy I give her 2. Vets are aware and happy with this. The simethicone encourages burping and farting and gives you a few extra mins to get to the vets.
I feed raw as dry food makes lily gulp water which will then cause her to bloat. I never restrict water as that again makes her gulp.
Don't exercise for 1 hour before and 2 hours after a meal.
Always feed from the ground, now I know the old fashioned way was a raised bowl but the latest research carried out by perdu university is to feed from the ground.
Never give ice cubes or frozen food but feed at room temperature.
If anxious then Use a t touch anxiety wrap or a thunder shirt.
As far as a companion goes this depends on your dog. Lily's bloating episodes have reduced dramatically since I lost her mother. This totally amazed me as I thought lily would pine for Maya but in fact the opposite is true.
Living with a bloating dog is very stressful as you never know when a mad dash to the vets is called for.
Good luck

Thank you for taking the time to reply, clearly a companion doesn't help. How's your girl now ?

 

[Asha]

What on earth has gone so wrong with dog-ownership and possibly upbringing, or maybe even breeding, where we need to be reliant upon such a complexity of systems, potions and general management in a simple effort to keep our dog alive?

How have we arrived at this state? I have never, over 50 years had a dog with any dietary problems, I've never had a dog with bloat or one which needed to be fed on a raised stand, and that's not one. The list of dogs includes Gundogs, Sheepdogs, Guard-dogs, Greyhounds, Coursing-dogs and Pet-dogs. Perhaps I've just been lucky and for many years.

Asha, this isn't a criticism of you, I just wonder how we've managed to devise a system which has quite so many casualties.

Alec.

No problem Alec, as I said I'm totally open to critism, what ever it takes to get the right regime, to keep him well. If I'm not managing him right please someone tell me.

 

[Alec Swan]

Asha, is your dog allowed access to eating the sh** of herbivores; horses, sheep or cattle? Sh** contains the probiotics that many dogs need, an expert once told me, and strangely, she may have been right!

I'm NOT criticising you, I promise.

Alec.

 

[satinbaze]

Thank you for taking the time to reply, clearly a companion doesn't help. How's your girl now ?

Lily is now 9 1/2 and bouncing with health. She will always be prone to bloating but thanks to her gastropexy she should not twist again (no guarantee but 90%)

Alec - dogs are not the only animals to bloat. Cows and sheep bloat too. Horses guts can twist with colic and wild wolves can also bloat. Even humans bloat and can have twisted intestines.
Our modern lifestyle choices may influence the predisposition to bloat (IMHO especially dry dog food) but cannot be held fully responsible. I feel that many modern dog owners are more aware of bloat symptoms. Please consider yourself lucky never to have experienced a GDV or bloat it is s horrid and stressful event and a true veterinary emergency

 

[Asha]

Asha, is your dog allowed access to eating the sh** of herbivores; horses, sheep or cattle? Sh** contains the probiotics that many dogs need, an expert once told me, and strangely, she may have been right!

I'm NOT criticising you, I promise.

Alec.

He was, he used to eat horse poop. Loved the foal poop the best. He would also eat haylage, shavings , basically whatever he could get in the stables. Since I've stopped him, and changed his feed he has stopped bloating. Maybe it's the feed that's made a difference ?

 

[Asha]

Lily is now 9 1/2 and bouncing with health. She will always be prone to bloating but thanks to her gastropexy she should not twist again (no guarantee but 90%)

That's great news. ��

 

[Alec Swan]

He was, he used to eat horse poop. Loved the foal poop the best. He would also eat haylage, shavings , basically whatever he could get in the stables. Since I've stopped him, and changed his feed he has stopped bloating. Maybe it's the feed that's made a difference ?

Neither haylage nor wood shavings can be digested. Could either, or a combination of both have been responsible? I honestly don't know, and I'm asking! FINALLY!! I've managed to resist the temptation of stopping my dogs from eating the sh** from herbivores! Now I leave them to it and look the other way, the wretches! I would never have believed how they benefit. Strangely, my dogs never bothered with the above effluent when they were fed green tripe, and straight from the abattoir. NOT a dietician, so I don't know!

Alec.