In a mess - please help!

Hawthorn

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Hello All. This is my first post although I have been a lurker for a while
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. A friend who uses this forum regularly suggested I ask for advice on a problem I have at the moment. I apologise in advance for the length of this post but would be truly grateful if anyone has the time to read it and advise.

6 years ago I met Janice when she came to my yard looking for livery. We very quickly became very close friends ( I thought). She kept her horse with me for about 3 years. About a year in she had a lot of problems with money due to her ex husband who had left her with huge debts. I helped her out both by lending her money and by keeping her horse for next to nothing. Eventually she sold the horse, became very depressed and left the yard. We remained in close touch and she always promised to pay me back as soon as she could.

Fast forward to a year ago.. Bear in mind I still have no money back from her. She's one of those people who seem to limp from one crisis to another but she had recently begun another relationship and things began to look up. She felt she wanted to get another horse to bring on and sell for a profit so that she could give me the profit. New partner lent her the money and new mare arrived. I, again, kept her for next to nothing knowing I'd get something out of it in the end.

The last few weeks she has been to the yard less and less and said horse is actually getting worse rather than improving. Last night Janice phoned me to say she wanted me to take over ownership of the horse as she felt she did not have time. I have not agreed to this yet as I'm not sure what to do. Mare is beyond my confidence abilities, she has a really sharp streak in her, bucks and rears often despite all checks being done. As it stands I think she is probably worth less than when she bought her and probably not even what it has cost to keep her. I could not afford to send her to a professional and would hate for her to go through the sales as I feel she is likely to end up being PTS or going for meat if she ends up in the wrong hands.

About me, I run this yard for a friend and keep my elderly cob there free of charge. Other than that I don't work as I retired due to ill health after a back injury. The money I loaned her was compensation I recieved after the injury and there is nothing left. I feel very stupid, and used. I trusted her 100% and cannot believe she would do this to me but I guess I've just been 'had'.

So basically my questions are:

1 What do I do with her horse? (If she is adamant I take her off her hands). Although the money is obviously a concern, my major worry is the future of this horse.

2 Does anyone know where I stand legally regarding the rest of the money? (This amounts to several thousand pounds now and yes I know I was mad to do it but that doesn't help me now!) I do have proof that she had most of this money.

I better leave it at this, quite long enough already.

Thasnk you very much for reading, any advice will be gratefully received.
 
You poor thing, I really feel for you.
Would you be able to advertise the horse for sale on project horses? They seem to go for a fair amount of money even the problem ones.

I don't know about the rest of the money and how you would stand legally, maybe the CAB could help?
 
If you have proof that you lent her this money and that she hasn't paid you yet. I'm sure there is legal procedings you can go through. As for the horse, sorry i'm not sure, i guess just get what money you can from it.

Make sure if you sell the horse, she dosn't come back and say that she is still the owner and accuses you of stealing it to sell.
 
I would write her a friendly first letter you can explain everything that concerns you with regard to the horses well being and future.You can also request some payment and ask for a timescale for her debt to be repayed.Keep a copy and ask for a reply in writing.
I think you are well within your rights to start charging for the livery and make out a invoice to cover yourself for future cost.
She has taken advantage of your good nature you will have to be strong and start making a record of all those outstanding debts.The cab would be my first port of call if she doesnt make a gesture of some payment.
 
What a mess!

I would draw a line under it. Don't throw good money after bad.

The mare is probably fine, this woman sounds as though she is on another planet and unrealistic in many areas of her life, so chances are she has bought herself a green horse and isn't up to the job. Don't worry about the mare. Put it up for sale and be honest when selling her. There are very talented people out there who will not be phased... if she is sound there is no reason why she will go for meat. Sounds like a nice summer project for someone.

I am an old bag, and over 30 years of keeping horses, I have very rearely heard of anyone truly turning a profit on a youngster if it is kept in livery and they are not a pro. That is when you concider all the costs and time. Sell on quick and don't let her draw you in to any more get rich quick schemes!

There is only one way to make money, and that is work! If she truly wants to pay you back why can't she get some shifts in a bar or muck out for folks or something?

As for the money she owes you... it realy depends upon how much you value her friendship! You could draw up an agreement whereby she pays you back say £20 a week, or you could thretern to take her to court unless she sorts herself out. One thing is for certain, don't be forthcoming with cash in the future!
 
I'm sorry you're in a situation like this but hopefully I can give some helpful advice. I have a friend who lent someone money - about 10,000 pounds, the guy never paid him back but kept promising to do so. Eventually they had a big falling out over it and my friend filed a claim with the Small Claims Court. Because my friend had kept a record of when and how the money was lent, the judge ruled in his favour and the guy had to pay him back. You can represent yourself in court to save on legal fees or you can apply for legal aid to consult a solicitor. I would advise a one off appointment with a solicitor specialising in debt recovery to go through the case with you and tell you what you need to do.

The Small Claims Court likes to see written evidence that you have exhausted every other way of negotiating with the other party so start by writing a letter requesting the return of your money and itemise how much you have lent her over the years. Request a written reply with 28 days. If she doesn't respond within 28 days, write a 2nd letter informing her of your intentions to file a claim with the Small Claims Court within 28 days. If she doesn't respond, then file a suit - you can do it online. If she pays back a little of the money, keep a record but stick to your guns and the timetable of 28 days and press on with the case. You'd be amazed how many people cave in when they receive the summons!

In the event that you win your case, have a think about how you're going to get the money back. Sometimes the bailiffs have to be involved - does this woman have the assets to sell to pay you back? Couldone of those assets be the horse?!

The important thing is not to get emotional about it. Money is money, business is business. It's sad when friendships get abused but I hope you feel better soon!
 
Be aware though that the Small Claims Court may rule in your favour but that does NOT mean that you will deffo see your money again - if she has no money she can give you no money!

Personally I would be VERY wary about taking the horse - she may well consider this full and final settlement, so if you do then you need a contract drawn up stating that this horse is £500 (or whatever) towards the full amount she owes you of £XXX.

Hope you get it sorted
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Tell her to sell the horse and use the proceeds to settle a part of her debt with you...having first drawn up a full schedule of all the money she owes you. Get her to sign this as a fair reflection of what she owes and ask her to submit a repayment plan. Just introducing some much needed and long overdue formality will help focus everyone's minds!
 
Gosh, thank you so much to everyone who has taken the time and trouble to reply, you are a lovely lot of folk on here!

Sea horse - I had not thought of project horses for the mare, if it comes to it, I will certainly give this a try.

kit279 - thank you for sharing that experience, it is good to hear that someone actually was successful.

I had thought about the CAB but wasn't sure if I would 'qualify' for their help as the 'loan' is not on a formal basis (yet) so yes I will look into that too.

Weezy - that was my concern about her seeing giving me the horse as full settlement, that is a great idea about the contract.

Yorkshire Lass, thank you for advice about the horse, I guess I was just being negative. She is a nice mare just needs understanding and someone competent/brave.

I am not at all sure I will see this money again, she has no assets really, just car and horse really. I tried to get in touch with her again yesterday (phone email text) and have had no reply. I think this new partner (who is very controlling - and short tempered) may be trying to prevent her coming to the yard and also from seeing me.

Thank you all again, I really appreciate your help and if anyone else has anything to add please do!
 
Just to add if you send her any letters regarding the debt they must be posted where she has to sign for them (?recorded delivery). This way if she claims not to have received them (as she may well do), especially if you end up at small claims court, you have some proof you have tried to recover the debt.

To be honest I am not sure you can force her to sell the horse to pay you as she did not buy it with her money, is she the legal owner? Either way the partner may consider that as it was his money the horse is his investment, you do not know if she had actually promised him the profit in exchange for the loan. Be careful with this he does not sound like the sort of person you would want to deal with. It may just be best trying to recover the money from her by a repayment plan, and it is her choice about the horse - the livery charge would need to increase to standard client rate.
 

poor you *hugs*

you could always take it off her hands if that is what you want to do, and then sell it on to get back all or nearly all of the money that she owes you. just an idea.
 
Thank you, and thanks for the hugs too - I need them big time! I hardly slept again last night worrying about it all.

If I thought I could sell the horse for what she owes me I'd go for it, but she certainly isn't ( I'd guess at best she would get about a quarter of what she owes me
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I have been so stupid, I do realise that but I just wanted to help, she seemed so genuine. My faith in human nature is being sorely tested!
 
You sound like a genuinely kind person, who has been taken advantage of by a so called friend. Not nice.

If you take the horse on, make sure Janice signs a contract stating she relinquishes all rights of ownership to the horse and get the passport off her. Then sell it on, making sure you are completely honest about it's behaviour, and at a realistic price. I agree with whoever said it is probably fine - it sounds like it's just "testing the water" to see what it can get away with. Someone will take it on, I'm sure.

As for the money you lent, I think you may have to write that off. She will probably say it was a gift and that you didn't want repaying. One to chalk up to experience, unfortunately.

I hope you enjoy the forums and that this problem is sorted out in your favour!!
 
What a situation.

Ok, as i see it the horse is technically not hers to give you as she borrowed the money from a third party (the latest boyfriend) to actually buy it. By rights I suspect the horse actually belongs to him which could complicate things greatly if you try and sell it.

Personally Im afraid I would give her notice and tell her to make other arrangements for the horse or sell it herself. Then i would persue her through the courts for the money she actually owes you.

I have no doubt you will lose her as a friend but sometimes you just need to draw a line under things.
 
Just reading the other posts, I meant to say - as long as you did not lend the money in cash with no receipt or record, the other party cannot claim that the money was a gift unless there is written evidence of that.
 
How awful for you, it is really sad when people take advantage of good natured peeps like yourself.

I would have to agree with spaniel. It reads as if the horse is not hers to give away, though I guess it would depend on the paper work and who is named as the registered owner. Mind you, if the horse was given to her as a gift from said BF, I guess that would change things on that front.

I really feel for you and I desperately hope that you recover as much money as possible. Good luck.
 
Hi Hawthorn. What a sad post, and even more sadly, not the first time I have read this sort of scenario on here. I totally echo what Spaniel says about the ownership of this horse. Your 'friend' sounds a bit lacking in moral fibre. Let her get rid of the horse, you just do what you can to recoup some of your money. As it says in my sig, no good deed goes unpunished!
 
Thank you all again, your support means a great deal. I began to feel it was in some way my fault this was happening!

I hadn't really given the ownership much thought, I feel sure Janice's partner will declare that the mare is his and cannot be given to me. I get the feeling he will do anything to annoy me!

It is sad that a friendship has to end like this but I think I am better off without friends like her. The worst bit is feeling used but I will learn my lesson, that's for sure.

I have still not been able to contact her and she has not been near the horse. I will leave it until after the weekend and then make an appointment with the CAB.

Once again, thank you all so much for listening and helping, it has made such a difference.
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The plot thickens... I have still been unable to contact Janice, she is not answering texts or emails and does not answer her phone. A mutual friend has told me this morning that Janice told her last week that she and new partner were considering moving away. I know her partner has done a flit before so now I'm thinking that they've just upped and left! Of course horse is still here and I have no idea what to do with her if in fact they have 'vanished'. I can't afford to keep her indefinitely, nor do I want to but what on earth do I do? I don't have the mare's passport.
 
Do you have her address/know where she is living. It might be worth going to the house to see if they look like they are still there. If they are then perhaps a registered letter is in order or simply a knock on the door and a chat? If not its possible neighbours may know whats going on.
 
Hi Spaniel, I do know where her house is, I drove there last night but there was no sign of life. Good idea about the neighbours though, thank you.

I can't believe how out of hand this has gotten, I can't understand how folk can do it. I feel bad if my mum lends me 20 quid when I'm desperate!
 
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