In by day and out by night- question.

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EquestrianFairy

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Random musing- a fellow livery adopted this policy as summer kicked in and I've always wondered if there is a reason people do it this way?

She has two TB's who are up to weight etc looking all good- if that helps.
 
Yes there is logic to it :)

The sugars in the grass are higher then they are at night. So the grass is more fattening during the day. It can also be to give the Horse a break from the heat/flies.
 
Mine is on this routine all year round, like others have said to come in for a rest and get away from flies and heat in summer and to get fed and have some hay in the winter, Also makes exercising easier if in, dry and ready to go.
 
We have always had our polo ponies in this routine, they come in early in the morning and go out in the late afternoon. My personal opinion is that its good for their legs to be walking, they don't get stiff or fill, and the morning dew is lovely and cooling! They don't get bothered by flies and hot hot sun ( well...what sun we've had this summer!) and it suits them :)
 
Mine are show horses, the grey gets tormented by flies and is much easier to keep clean when out at night so I have them in during the day, out at night during the summer and we're all happy :) In the winter they're clipped and stable stains are easier to keep on top of to an acceptable level / less of an issue.
 
Two things horses hate most are flies and heat.

Some advantages to keeping horses out at night, and inside during the day:
Horses that stand in the sun all day, stamping their legs to keep the flies off, risk giving themselves concussion or ligament damage. You can sometimes avoid windgalls from bringing them in during the day.

White noses burn easily, so avoid it by bringing in during the day!

Flies love feasting on watery eyes - so avoid gooey eyes and conjuntivitis by bringing in during the day.

Horses with dust, or pollen allergies will fair better if only turned out at night.

Horse suffer far more quickly in heat, and will often not graze nor move around much if they are too hot, then if they are made to stand in all night as well, they may stiffen up and legs may start to fill with fluid.

Fly rugs are OK, but I don't care what anyone says - horses do become hot inside them and it is far more beneficial if you can avoid having to use them by bringing the horses inside during the summer days and then they can be turned out more comfortably with or without a fly rug on at night.

For me, the only disadvanges I can think of are that overweight and lami prone horses will consume more grass, and some owners may not feel confident about leaving their horse out overnight in case of accident or injury which wont be noticed as quickly as it would in the day.
 
LaurenBay said:
The sugars in the grass are higher then they are at night. So the grass is more fattening during the day.
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Really, seriously? I mean I know that respiration at night will burn some of the glucose created by photosynthesis during the day. But the vaste, vaste majority of carbohydrates in grass are cellulose and lignin so I cannot see it making any difference.

I would talk about the sugar myth and Insulin resistance but don't have the energy except to say plenty of exercise and don't let them get fat.

Paula
 
Paulag said:
Really, seriously? I mean I know that respiration at night will burn some of the glucose created by photosynthesis during the day. But the vaste, vaste majority of carbohydrates in grass are cellulose and lignin so I cannot see it making any difference.

I would talk about the sugar myth and Insulin resistance but don't have the energy except to say plenty of exercise and don't let them get fat.

Paula
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'Fraid so. Sugars increase during the day and are at their highest levels between mid day and early evening.

Agree about exercise though.
 
Yes serious :)

That is why so many good do-ers/prone to lami Horses have this routine. Soacked hay in the day and out at night either with muzzle or stripped grazing usually.
 
horserider said:
'Fraid so. Sugars increase during the day and are at their highest levels between mid day and early evening.

Agree about exercise though.
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Yes but my point is that there is so little there that these changes will be completely negligible. Grass just isn't sugary - and anyhow horses (or more accurately the bacteria in their gut) digest all the cellulose in grass into glucose anyhow. Cellulose is just strings of glucose molecules joined together the same ad starch (except humans and horses don't have the enzymes to digest cellulose but horses have bacteria to do it).

If there was any real amount if sugar in grass we could live on the stuff.

Paula
 
I wonder if putting horses in this sort of routine for a long time will result in vitamin D deficiencies due to them not getting enough sun......?

I don't get or particularly like the idea of horses being brought in during the day to be honest. If you provide them with decent (and not too-rich-over-fertilised) grazing in a filed with adequate shelter then I think a horse would much prefer to stand outside and choose to stand in the shade/shelter if it wants.

I have to say, ours love to lie out in the sun, flat out having a snooze so they are not suffering with the heat. Plus, and maybe I am mistaken (?) aren't horses designed to deal with flies?? I am sure there are some few horses who react to fly bites and it makes them miserable but the majority don't. I just get the impression that people are overly precious sometimes with their horses. Hmm, maybe it's just me who holds that opinion.
 
I have always done this they are out of the flys off the grass when it's highest in sugar in the stables when the grooms are there to do what's needed to them they are available and ready when I work them it works really well in the hieght of summer they are 9am to 7pm and as we go into autumn and the flys decrease (and my grass) they go out earlier as the weather changes we swop over to in at night out after work in the morning .
The horses love it they all lie down and snooze at some point during the day and are waiting for us in the morning.
 
Most laminitis experts seem to agree that grass sugars are an important factor in causing the condition. Cellulose is digested by horses differently from the simple sugars, which is why the simple sugars are more dangerous.

As an example, here a veterinary practice's advice about laminitis - full article here:

http://www.animedvets.co.uk/laminitis.htm

And a few key quotes from it about sugar levels in grass.

"Vets and horse owners alike have long been familiar with the association of lush pasture and laminitis in susceptible equines. Water soluble carbohydrates in grasses are implicated as triggers for dietary induced laminitis."

"Temperate grasses contain naturally large amounts of carbohydrate (sucrose, fructose, glucose, and fructans). It is the carbohydrate that is rapidly fermented that initiates the cascade resulting in laminitis."

"Difficulties lie in predicting Fructan ( a soluble carbohydrate) levels at any given point in time. The content of Fructans in grasses is highly variable. The actual amounts of sucrose and fructans vary from 5-50% of total dry matter. Large changes can occur within hours. The accumulation of these sugars is a highly dynamic, variable and environmentally responsive process. Temperate grasses may store 10-13% of their total sugars reserves as starches. This leaves up to 90% being stored as sucrose or fructans. (Water-soluble carbohydrates)"

"Certain grass species seem to accumulate more fructans than others; perennial ryegrass may contain 12% fructans and cocksfoot only 2%. Temperature effects fructan accumulation, cold sunny days mean a high level of fructan accumulation. Grass stores more fructans in its stems than in its leaves so horses turned out on stubble after a hay crop can be eating a relatively large amount of fructans, conversely well managed fields which are grazed by sheep or cut will have a high leaf to stem ratio and potentially less fructans. "

"Normally the bacteria ferment away slowly and horse absorbs the products from the bowel for use as an energy source. When the simple sugars arrive in the large bowel it takes the bacteria no time to ferment them producing large amounts of acid very quickly - more quickly than they can be absorbed. This leads to build up of lactic acid in the hind gut. This is the first step towards laminitis. "
 
OP, yes as others have said - in at day for shade & fly protection in the summer.

I loosely follow this:
December to Feb: in at night & out at day.
March - to mid May and Oct & Nov: depending on weather, out 24/7 or in at night if wet/cold/fields getting trashed or possibly even out 24/7, again the latter is weather/groubd dependant.
Mid May to End Sept - out 24/7 (if in paddocks with field shelters) or in at day & out at night :)
 
Mine are out at night on track and in during day on small ménage size dust paddock with field shelter 1) because I believe in the grass being higher in sugars during day and both mine are fatties, 2) one has sweet itch and the other gets really bothered by flies 3) I have more interaction with them during the day as the paddock is by the garden. Also I am going to bring my mare in to the stable during the winter for a few day hours too because 1) it means I have a dry horse to ride 2) again because she just eats too much grass given the chance and 3) it also means I can dry her feet out as she is barefoot but needs quite strict management to keep her sound so I can fight thrush etc.
 
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I do this from about April to about Nov. Another advantage is that you can put a rain sheet/lightweight on overnight without worry on about over heating Spring and Autumn, it's often too muggy during the day.
A disadvantage though is that they get in the routine of sleeping all day and my youngster gets really stroppy if you ask him to work between 10am and about 1pm, when he likes to be flat out & snoring.
 
ladyt25 said:
I wonder if putting horses in this sort of routine for a long time will result in vitamin D deficiencies due to them not getting enough sun......?
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I think it depends on how literally you take 'out by night'! If you turn out once it gets dark and bring in the minute the sun appears over the horizon then it might be a problem, but the majority of owners don't do this and the horses get plenty of sunlight in the early morning and late afternoon/early evening.
 
ladyt25 said:
I wonder if putting horses in this sort of routine for a long time will result in vitamin D deficiencies due to them not getting enough sun......? Mine don't seem to suffer unduly. They aren't bought into a dark cavern every day from dawn til dusk never seeing sunlight at all like vampire horses. Some days they don't choose to come in, if they are by the gate then they come in.

I don't get or particularly like the idea of horses being brought in during the day to be honest. it is a nuisance, time consuming, 8 horses, 4 foals = 8 stalls to clean out and prep, I'd rather they stayed out because I am lazy

If you provide them with decent (and not too-rich-over-fertilised) grazing in a filed with adequate shelter then I think a horse would much prefer to stand outside and choose to stand in the shade/shelter if it wants.Some do. It all depends on the horse doesn't it?

I have to say, ours love to lie out in the sun, flat out having a snooze so they are not suffering with the heat Some of mine do too:). Plus, and maybe I am mistaken (?) aren't horses designed to deal with flies?? Sure they are, to an extent, but why make them suffer the attacks of swarms of 1" fanged monsters like I get here? They spend their time galloping about - in 34C ,on rock hard ground that does them no favours, they have sheds, they have trees, the bugs LOVE shade :))

I am sure there are some few horses who react to fly bites and it makes them miserable but the majority don't. Thor is in the minority, turns out he is allergic to a certain kind of bugs
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I just get the impression that people are overly precious sometimes with their horses. ;) You won't get a much less precious person than me, but I am not cruel, and to leave some of my horses out in our heat to burn is cruel.

Hmm, maybe it's just me who holds that opinion.
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No, I shouldn't think so. :)Mine have their grain and then lie down and sleep, must be bliss not to be constantly swatting flies, shaking heads and stamping feet I should think, also 10C cooler in the barn;)
 
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Mine are out 24/7 but the flies are horrendous so choose to spend the majority of their day inside their shelter. Even with fly rugs and fly spray they do this. They are also not given access to the field with most grass during the day for sugar reasons.

When I have been on livery with rubbish shelter in the past I kept them in during the day in summer.
 
There are all the normal arguments, sugars, heat, flies, sunburn etc. my boy and all the horses that are in work at the yard are in by day, when I get to the yard he is in and waiting for his ride and then gets turned out for the night. I just find this convenient and a nice routine for him. He loves his stable and thrives on the routine. As winter sets in he will swap to in at night but during the summer this works well for me, my yo does bring him in for me though which really helps
 
Maybe certain areas in the UK are worse than others for flies then I guess. I certainly don't think they've been much of a problem this year. I could not be fussed mucking out all year round - it's bad enough at the moment with on on box rest due to an injury!! :)
 
No, it's not just you!

But we do live on a very windy hill, so flies don't get the opportunity to land often.


Or perhaps Yorkshire flies are less troublesome than some other - or our horses are tougher!
 
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