"In Defense of Letting Your Dog Off Lead."

[Caol Ila]

I like Outside Magazine, but as a non-dog person and someone who has to engage with them while out hacking, this article annoyed me. I was wondering what you dog-folk thought of it. https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/active-families/dogs-off-leash/

"Life for our canine friends goes really fast. Better to let them enjoy their freedom and make their own decisions, which, for Argo, means chasing, always unsuccessfully, wild hares, deer, elk, moose, and the occasional feral cat."

Should you really be allowing your dog to harass the local wildlife? That's why so many trail systems in the United States have leash requirements in the first place - to stop dogs from bothering wildlife. Dogs don't care if they are chasing a squirrel or an endangered/threatened species. Besides, if they are chasing deer, hares, etc., what's to stop them from chasing cyclists, horse riders, and livestock?

"Those who aren’t on leash typically poop in places where nobody will see or be bothered by the relatively harmless pile of excrement."

There's no good answer for how to dispose of vast amounts of dog sh1t no matter what you do, but I have read that too much of it, left in the woods, can harm ecosystems not adapted to that amount of poo from predators concentrated in relatively small areas. Dog sh1t is not relatively harmless. It's nasty stuff.

"For those of us with energetic dogs, there’s nothing better than giving them the freedom to roam and run. Argo and our terrier-mutt, Topaz, are great about sprinting their faces off, but always checking in and staying within a quarter-mile radius of my wife and me."

A quarter-mile is actually quite far. It drives me nuts when I see a dog running towards my horse, well out of sight of its owners. The owners have no idea that I am there, and if the dog locks onto the horse, the chances of recall get low. Nor would they know if it is approaching another person or dog who doesn't like dogs, a cow or sheep. Or a mountain lion.

ETA: Or a road.

"But also keep in mind that dogs are very trainable. You are capable, and they are capable. "

I don't think every dog is "capable" of being off-lead in unfenced areas.

He makes some good points about behaviour - at least from my ignorant point of view - but this piece has an entitled feel to it, a disdain towards wildlife and other trail users because his dogs need their freedom.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I think it's just a really long winded way of saying 'I can't train recall or loose leash walking and my arms are sore'.

It's a load of entitled old hooey and puts the reputation of responsible dog owners back another squillion paces.

Letting your dog out of your eyesight and allowing them to chase, harass and be at risk of involvement RTAs is irresponsible and in some cases, criminal.

 

[Birker2020]

I like Outside Magazine, but as a non-dog person but someone who has to engage with them while out hacking, this article annoyed me. I was wondering what you dog-folk thought of it. https://www.outsideonline.com/culture/active-families/dogs-off-leash/

"Life for our canine friends goes really fast. Better to let them enjoy their freedom and make their own decisions, which, for Argo, means chasing, always unsuccessfully, wild hares, deer, elk, moose, and the occasional feral cat."

Should you really be allowing your dog to harass the local wildlife? That's why so many trail systems in the United States have leash requirements in the first place - to stop dogs from bothering wildlife. Dogs don't care if they are chasing a squirrel or an endangered/threatened species. Besides, if they are chasing deer, hares, etc., what's to stop them from chasing cyclists, horse riders, and livestock?

"Those who aren’t on leash typically poop in places where nobody will see or be bothered by the relatively harmless pile of excrement."

There's no good answer for how to dispose of vast amounts of dog sh1t no matter what you do, but I have read that too much of it, left in the woods, can unbalance ecosystems not adapted to that amount of poo from predators concentrated in relatively small areas.

"For those of us with energetic dogs, there’s nothing better than giving them the freedom to roam and run. Argo and our terrier-mutt, Topaz, are great about sprinting their faces off, but always checking in and staying within a quarter-mile radius of my wife and me."

A quarter-mile is actually quite far. It drives me nuts when I see a dog running towards my horse, well out of sight of its owners. The owners have no idea that I am there, and if the dog locks onto the horse, the chances of recall get low. Nor would they know if it is approaching another person or dog who doesn't like dogs. Or a mountain lion.

"But also keep in mind that dogs are very trainable. You are capable, and they are capable. "

I don't think every dog is "capable" of being off-lead in unfenced areas.

He makes some good points about behaviour - at least from my ignorant point of view - but this piece has an entitled feel to it, almost a disdain towards wildlife and other trail users because his dogs need their freedom.

Having watched a repeat episode of Wildlife SOS where a lovely muntjac deer fawn slowly died from terrible injuries after being savaged by a dog on Wildlife SOS, made even more sad by the months of hand rearing by one of the volunteers, Malcolm, from Wildlife Aid, I think its disgusting that dogs should be allowed to chase wildlife.
Warning for anyone who doesn't like reality
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-22185032

years ago there used to be dog races where you could take your pet dog to a greyhound track and put it in one of the starting boxes and let it race alongside other pet dogs. That would be fun but the 'killer streak' would be even more ingrained in them after that I expect.


'Munchkin ' The Orphaned Deer With 'Flash' The Foster Mother Labrador Dog At The Home Of Veronica And Malcolm Thompson Of Cobham Surrey

 

[meleeka]

Those dogs must be really clever to know the difference between a feral cat and a pet cat ?

Another who thinks it just really means “I can’t train my dog, so i’ll just pretend I don’t need to”. At best allowing your dog to be 1/4 a mile away from you ‘making its own decisions’ is antisocial and at worst, it’s just downright dangerous! Aside from the antisocial element, do they not care about the safety of their dogs? I have one with a crap recall (JRT). I could, in theory, let her off on my land and hope she doesn’t go out, but I don’t because it’s not worth losing her over. If I can’t see her, how do I know she’s safe? (since she hasn’t read the Highway Code or the advice not to go with strangers). I’m worried for the readers who will just think of it this as justification.

 

[CorvusCorax]

years ago there used to be dog races where you could take your pet dog to a greyhound track and put it in one of the starting boxes and let it race alongside other pet dogs. That would be fun but the 'killer streak' would be even more ingrained in them after that I expect.

It's a wee bit more complicated than that.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

This makes me think of an internet trainer that keeps coming up on my SM feeds that drives me nuts. For a 'trainer' he seems to be very anti training and the ethos seems to be 'just let your dogs do whatever they like because it's good for their mental health'. He has multiple videos pretty much bragging about how great his dogs' recall is due to his strategy of...never recalling them. He is quite content for them to be out of his sight for extended periods of time and sees chasing wildlife as important for their wellbeing, never mind about the wellbeing of the poor creatures being chased/stressed/killed.

 

[Birker2020]

It's a wee bit more complicated than that.

Its instinct. That can't be taken out of a dog. Therefore, its up to us to avoid those situations. But its not always that simple.
A dog chasing a hare around a track would make it more likely to see something moving as bait, was the point I was trying to put across.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I dont let my dog off the lead unless we are really far away from others or alone, not because I dont trust my dog, I 1000% do, its others…. She is deaf, wouldnt hear a growl or a bark therefore leaves her vulnerable. If she off the lead she walks by my side, usually under my feet ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I have to say that not only do I think that dogs should be under control at all times but that anyone who brings up a wild animal to become familiar with and trusting of dogs is highly irresponsible. Deer need their wild instincts to protect them.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Its instinct. That can't be taken out of a dog. Therefore, its up to us to avoid those situations. But its not always that simple.
A dog chasing a hare around a track would make it more likely to see something moving as bait, was the point I was trying to put across.

Nope, sorry, a fat pet lab chasing a Lidl bag on a fun day at a race track won't turn it into an unmitigated killer. If that was the case, every dog who chased a ball would be dangerous, it is also a moving target.

Allowing a dog an outlet/diversion for its instincts and drives through various disciplines and sports, and then keeping it responsibly under control the rest of the time is more healthy than either supressing it completely or letting it run off willy nilly.

 

[Birker2020]

Nope, sorry, a fat pet lab chasing a Lidl bag on a fun day at a race track won't turn it into an unmitigated killer.

It was chasing a mechanised hare around a track and it was a weekly event sponsored by Dogs Today magazine. Most of the dogs involved were hounds so its quite likely that if they saw a rabbit or other small creature in the future they'd think that was ok to chase too. But thanks for taking the p**s anyway. Made me laugh

 

[fankino04]

It's just self entitled clap trap. There are plenty of sports / hobbies to do with your dog if they have so much energy that you can't manage them without letting them run amok and upset other walkers / dogs / wildlife. As said above just someone who's too lazy to put the work in to train their dog or spend the time giving them fulfilment via safe, managed means.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It was chasing a mechanised hare around a track and it was a weekly event sponsored by Dogs Today magazine. Most of the dogs involved were hounds so its quite likely that if they saw a rabbit or other small creature in the future they'd think that was ok to chase too. But thanks for taking the p**s anyway. Made me laugh

The 'hare' at a track is quite often a shopping bag, I wouldn't have said it if I hadn't been to several tracks and seen it with my own eyes.
I don't think there is anything wrong with hounds or lots of other types of dogs being exert their instincts in a safe place.
If it's instinctual, they're going to do it anyway, best to teach them that there is an appropriate time and place to do it.
Kids who learn martial arts don't generally walk down the street karate chopping and round-housing people.
I hope the day will never come when all dogs are a homogenous beige mess with no distinguishing characteristics or drive, that don't have any energy to do anything except go to and from the sofa.

 

[AmyMay]

It was chasing a mechanised hare around a track and it was a weekly event sponsored by Dogs Today magazine. Most of the dogs involved were hounds so its quite likely that if they saw a rabbit or other small creature in the future they'd think that was ok to chase too.

I think hounds generally think it’s ok to chase small furries.

 

[MuddyMonster]

It never occurred to me before that there is has to be a 'defense' of letting dogs off leads. Although I certainly think there could be better articles.

I wouldn't want a dog to be on the lead all the time (and as a family we've had numerous ex-racing greyhounds that can't be off lead in some/many situations) nor would I ever advocate dogs off lead in all scenarios but I do think being off lead has a huge number of benefits for most dogs.

To be fair, a number of our greyhounds would happily chase a squirrel (or possibly/probably a small dog) given the chance - so we were exceptionally careful to never give them the chance - but suggesting they'll then chase a human is a bit of a leap IMHO.

But for an average dog with a reasonable amount if training, a good recall and sensible and responsible owners I think dogs off lead should be encouraged, or certainly not discouraged.

 

[Pegasus5531]

I was horrified to hear recently when visiting my husbands family that his brother had let his two Labradors run off down the beach chasing two horses and causing them to rear and spook. His defence was "they were too far away so I thought there's no point running after them and the horses were alright really". Horrendous dog ownership and bloody bad manners (obviously I told him this) He said he didn't apologise as they were too far away! So clearly the dogs were out of control!

I get so infuriated with the amount of people these days that have dogs but aren't really "animal" people if that makes sense. They have never been around animals before and have made no effort to learn how to train or manage a dog and just treat them like an accessory and leave them to their own devices.

 

[Caol Ila]

It never occurred to me before that there is has to be a 'defense' of letting dogs off leads. Although I certainly think there could be better articles.

I wouldn't want a dog to be on the lead all the time (and as a family we've had numerous ex-racing greyhounds that can't be off lead in some/many situations) nor would I ever advocate dogs off lead in all scenarios but I do think being off lead has a huge number of benefits for most dogs.

To be fair, a number of our greyhounds would happily chase a squirrel (or possibly a small dog) given the chance - so we were exceptionally careful to never give them the chance - but suggesting they'll then chase a human is a bit of a leap IMHO.

But for an average dog with a reasonable amount if training, a good recall and sensible and responsible owners I think dogs off lead should be encouraged, or certainly not discouraged.

In the American context, there are quite a few trails where you are not allowed to have dogs off-lead. Certainly around the Front Range of Colorado, anyway. So I suppose that's the reason for the "defense." Leash laws exist mostly for the protection of wildlife in vulnerable ecosystems, but also because other groups of trail users - mountain bikers, horse riders, hikers who don't have dogs - advocate for them.

 

[CorvusCorax]

In the American context, there are quite a few trails where you are not allowed to have dogs off-lead. Certainly around the Front Range of Colorado, anyway. So I suppose that's the reason for the "defense." Leash laws exist mostly for the protection of wildlife in vulnerable ecosystems, but also because other groups of trail users - mountain bikers, horse riders, hikers who don't have dogs - advocate for them.

I mean, your dog getting eaten by a mountain lion isn't ideal either......

 

[MuddyMonster]

There's are places in the UK where dogs have to on leads for eco system protection (or other reasons) but I still find it rather surprising and sad that people might want dogs on lead as a blanket thing and that being off lead was somehow not the norm.

I mean, it does also rather assumes that being on lead equals control.

I 100% want dogs to be under control but the most heart stopping moment I've had is when an on lead dog darted between my horses legs and the lead almost got caught in my horses legs, the dog being out of control off lead would have been safer for all!

As a dog owener, if I have to meet an out if control dog I'd much rather theirs and mine were off lead where they can both sort themselves out than a dog the owner can't control and is being pulled about and will invariably get tangled in my dog's lead (assuming both on lead).

I suppose for me, the bigger issue is safety, training and control (of both dogs and horses out hacking) than relying if the dog is on a lead.

 

[AmyMay]

As a dog owener, if I have to meet an out if control dog I'd much rather it was off lead where they can both sort themselves out than an over excuted, pulling dog the owner can't control and will invariably get tangled in my dog's lead (assuming both on lead).

What ‘sorting out’ would you expect to happen??

 

[CorvusCorax]

As a dog owner, if I have to meet an out if control dog I'd much rather theirs and mine were off lead where they can both sort themselves out than a dog the owner can't control and is being pulled about and will invariably get tangled in my dog's lead (assuming both on lead).

Nope nope nope. Completely unfair on both dogs. You have a pet, advocate for it and protect it. And a reminder that in the event of either you or the dog sustaining puncture wounds, the NHS is free, and the vet is not.

 

[MuddyMonster]

What ‘sorting out’ would you expect to happen??

Going on walking my dog, he would/does get nervous meeting an out of control dog on a lead (the leaping, pulling, barkinh sort that the owners are failing to get back to walking by their side) especially if a narrow-ish space - but off lead he'd just be able to put enough distance between him and the dog and wait for us to catch up

 

[meleeka]

There's are places in the UK where dogs have to on leads for eco system protection (or other reasons) but I still find it rather surprising and sad that people might want dogs on lead as a blanket thing and that being off lead was somehow not the norm.

I mean, it does also rather assumes that being on lead equals control.

I 100% want dogs to be under control but the most heart stopping moment I've had is when an on lead dog darted between my horses legs and the lead almost got caught in my horses legs, the dog being out of control off lead would have been safer for all!

As a dog owener, if I have to meet an out if control dog I'd much rather theirs and mine were off lead where they can both sort themselves out than a dog the owner can't control and is being pulled about and will invariably get tangled in my dog's lead (assuming both on lead).

I suppose for me, the bigger issue is safety, training and control (of both dogs and horses out hacking) than relying if the dog is on a lead.

That dog wasn’t under control if it darted between your horses legs. In a perfect world I’d agree with you, but there seems to be so many idiot owners these days. One of mine is the product of an idiot owner and I’m staggered at the amount of dogs that come running up to her (she’s on a lead) with no regard for their own safety, followed by hapless owners panicking that their dog is going to get eaten by a German Shepherd (she’s not actually aggressive but has no idea how to greet anything).

 

[AmyMay]

Going on walking my dog, he would/does get nervous meeting an out of control dog on a lead (the leaping, pulling, barkinh sort that the owners are failing to get back to walking by their side) especially if a narrow-ish space - but off lead he'd just be able to put enough distance between him and the dog and wait for us to catch up

Ah, ok. Most dogs would be unsettled by that. Should we just let them off the lead to run away, keeping our fingers firmly crossed that we will actually catch them up (or even find them again).

Or should we ignore the other dogs behaviour and just carry on our merry way with a reassuring word to our own dog?

 

[MuddyMonster]

Nope nope nope. Completely unfair on both dogs. You have a pet, advocate for it and protect it. And a reminder that in the event of either you or the dog sustaining puncture wounds, the NHS is free, and the vet is not.

Think I might have explained that badly. By sorting out I just mean for my dog he can find strangers nerve wracking, so if I have to meet a questionable dog, I'd rather it was off lead so my dog can put enough distance between the dog and the other owner and him.

I've struggled the most meeting out of control on lead dogs on say, a footpath. With the owners being pulled about and on more than one occassion, getting their leads tangled with mine (long flexi leads or lunge lines seem especially good at that) which then puts my dog in the situation where he can't put space between him and the human.

If I'm on the common or in a forest and can see an off lead dog having issues I can take avoidance action - call my dog to me and walk the other way or send him forwards a bit, knowing he will wait or he can circle and recall back.

In the situations I've been in, mine has settled much quicker meeting a questionable dog off lead being able to manage himself.

 

[splashgirl45]

Everything in moderation, i let my dogs off lead where i consider it safe to do so, away from wildlife and roads, they all have good recall and if i see someone approaching with a dog on lead, i put mine on, if other dogs are off lead i dont.. i walk in an area where i know most of the dogs and their owners so feel quite relaxed about mine being off lead..

 

[AmyMay]

Everything in moderation, i let my dogs off lead where i consider it safe to do so, away from wildlife and roads, they all have good recall and if i see someone approaching with a dog on lead, i put mine on, if other dogs are off lead i dont.. i walk in an area where i know most of the dogs and their owners so feel quite relaxed about mine being off lead..

Ditto

 

[MuddyMonster]

Ah, ok. Most dogs would be unsettled by that. Should we just let them off the lead to run away, keeping our fingers firmly crossed that we will actually catch them up (or even find them again).

Or should we ignore the other dogs behaviour and just carry on our merry way with a reassuring word to our own dog?

Just to clarify again - I'd never let my dog off lead if I can see a dog on lead coming towards us, even if they are struggling - if it's on lead, we stay on lead with fingers firmly crossed the other owner can control their dog enough to not get it tangled with mine.

Maybe we've just been unlucky we've had more than one dog effectively lunging and then get it's long lead caught with my lead, which has dented my dogs confidence.

The owner can/has apologised but then it's up to me to take charge, tell the owner to hand the dog over and I'll de-tangle them and then get my dog's co fidence back. It's also why my dog now wears a muzzle as we had this happen on an almost weekly basis at one point and I can't risk anything.

In an ideal world, absolutely we just give our dog lots of praise and get away as soon as possible

I just meant generally if my dog has found it less stressful all round if a questionable dog with questionable recall has been off lead and he's off lead. Beginning to regret my choice of words now ?

 

[MuddyMonster]

That dog wasn’t under control if it darted between your horses legs. In a perfect world I’d agree with you, but there seems to be so many idiot owners these days. One of mine is the product of an idiot owner and I’m staggered at the amount of dogs that come running up to her (she’s on a lead) with no regard for their own safety, followed by hapless owners panicking that their dog is going to get eaten by a German Shepherd (she’s not actually aggressive but has no idea how to greet anything).

That's why I made my point about being on lead doesn't equal under control

 

[AmyMay]

Maybe we've just been unlucky we've had more than one dog effectively lunging and then get it's long lead caught with my lead, which has dented my dogs confidence.

Scary. (Although I’m struggling with how leads are getting twisted together).