In my shoes, what what you do?

[{138171}]

Winnie is only 11yo avd truefully is just coming into her own. She taken a long time to come good and now this lump situation has come up. Because the lump is not covered on insurance my lovely vet is trying to make the best plan without wasting money, So she is supposed to be going in to the college for the surgeons to scan her, however Winnie is a horrifically bad loader, ranging from 45 minutes to 5 hours to get on the lorry/trailer! There is a possibility of a resident coming to the yard to scan her, it's highly likely the lump has to be removed but if its cancerous, what you do? Would you put a pony that is bad to load and doesn't cope being in through long treatment periods? Or would you pts before it spread? This is the lump causing all this concern.

 

[AmyMay]

I would get the initial scan done by a mobile unit. And in the meantime do some loading practice. If the mobile scan is not good enough and she does need to go to hospital I would certainly make every effort to get her there.

If it does turn out to be cancerous then, no, I wouldn’t put her through a long and costly treatment.

Why won’t she be covered by insurance?

 

[Leam_Carrie]

What a difficult situation. What’s her current quality of life like? Is she in pain? If it’s not cancerous what would the treatment be?

PTS is sometimes the kindest decision. Need a bit more info

 

[{138171}]

Insurance exempt the lump 😢, she's starting loading practice tomorrow, shes in rude health avd very happy, she's not in any pain and you can poke, squeeze or manipulate the lump and she's not bothered by it at all. The size of it, is starting to be affected by numnahs etc and she's funny with what goes under her saddke so can't change things to much.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Biopsy. Not sure why there’s a drama about loading yet. A biopsy can be done at the yard, presumably this hasn’t yet been done as you aren’t sure what it is. If it’s not cancerous but means she can’t be saddled, then you need to make a decision. The college has a small herd of blood donator horses if she doesn’t require meds.

 

[ycbm]

I would get your vet to take a biopsy at home and send it out for testing. I don't understand the need for scans at this stage.

I would not put any animal through chemo or radiation treatment.


ETA cross posted with CT. GMTA.

 

[{138171}]

Biopsy. Not sure why there’s a drama about loading yet. A biopsy can be done at the yard.

The surgeons want a scan done first of all, then whatever treatment is appropriate because of lack of insurance we are trying to form a cost effective plan that will keep winnies help as top priority, we are only 10 minutes away from the Rvc.

 

[Melody Grey]

How long has it been there/ been developing? In no way wanting to play it down, but have allergic reactions/ bites/ subcutaneous cyst / trauma swelling been completely ruled out already?

 

[ycbm]

The surgeons want a scan done first of all, then whatever treatment is appropriate

I would tell them to go spin on it. I would phrase it 'she won't load and I want a biopsy'. You don't know if you even need a surgeon yet. And if that's cancer and growing that fast, there's every chance it will be inoperable or you will decide the odds are against operating. I'm sorry if that sounds too blunt, but with all the information you have given I would not be adding loading and traveling to her problems, or scans to your bill, until I knew what is inside that lump, and it looks easy enough to cut open and find out.

Check out Faracats posts. Her horse has had lumps biopsied by her own vet several times.


..

 

[Cinnamontoast]

The surgeons want a scan done first of all, then whatever treatment is appropriate

Really? They’ve gone straight to a scan rather than biopsy it? It’s not the usual practice of the RVC to do that, IME. I’m mates with their scanner/MRI person.

 

[ozpoz]

I'd push for her to be scanned at home and then wait for the results. At least then you'll have some idea of what you're dealing with.

 

[{138171}]

How long has it been there/ been developing? In no way wanting to play it down, but have allergic reactions/ bites/ subcutaneous cyst / trauma swelling been completely ruled out already?

Yes as its been there at a third of the size for a few years, ruled as a fatty lump and to be left alone, in the last 3 months it had grown. Because we are trying to control cost, scan is being requested first.

 

[Melody Grey]

I'm obviously not a vet, but I would have thought biopsy done at home would be less traumatic overall, less costly and hopefully give you enough info to make a clearer judgement? That's where I'd be going I think. X

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Biopsy is far cheaper.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

But you might not need a scan! I would start with an aspiration of the lump to try to determine whether it is a cyst or something more sinister. That can be done at home and should not cost much.

 

[ycbm]

Has your vet stuck a needle in it to see if there's fluid in it?

 

[silv]

But you might not need a scan! I would start with an aspiration of the lump to try to determine whether it is a cyst or something more sinister. That can be done at home and should not cost much.

A needle aspiration can normally tell if it is a fatty lump, that's what I would go for, then if that is ruled out a biopsy.

 

[TPO]

I had a mare with an abscessing pastern that kept reoccurring and my then (useless) vet had no clue. I took her into the vet school and they scanned it. Only after scanning it did they take a sample. When the sample was inconclusive she went for surgery under the premise that if it was found to be cancer she wouldn't wake up from surgery. Thankfully it was two tiny bit of grit that had got under the skin and were causing all sorts of bother but were easy to remove.

Another incident (long story short) my current horse came home from a trainer with a massive lump on his neck with no "head" etc. I got my (current and very, very good) vet straight out as it was so strange and even had him totally stumped. He happened to have ultrasound with him so scanned it and I think it was <£80. He couldn't diagnose but found a white area that could have been a foreign object. Vet thought it might abscess or reabsorbed but leave a lump. He left a course of danolin and was going to come back a week later to take a sample for testing. Thankfully it started to heal and disperse on it's own accord so I didn't get a sample taken.

My point being in my limited experience it's been normal to scan before taking a sample/biopsy.

Any particular reason why you/vet think its cancerous?

I hope you get good news after the vet visit

 

[{138171}]

Because of the size of it, they require scanning first, it's tear drop shaped and t fairly protruding, if you imagine cutting an avacado in half long ways, and sticking it on a surface, that would be the size/shape of it, it's fairly hard, covered by muscle and doesn't get any sort of reaction from her when it's brushed, clipped over, poked or squeezed. No one is suggesting cancer but I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst.

 

[ycbm]

Has it been ultrasound scanned?

Has it been needle aspirated?

'They require' is nonsense. It's your horse and your bill. If you say you want a biopsy done at home, that's what happens.

I can't see how, from that photo, it can be covered in muscle. The edges of it appear to be far too delineated for there to be muscle on top of it.

 

[TPO]

Because of the size of it, they require scanning first, it's tear drop shaped and fairly protruding, if you imagine cutting an avacado in half long ways, and sticking it on a surface, that would be the size/shape of it, it's fairly hard, covered by muscle and doesn't get any sort of reaction from her when it's brushed, clipped over, poked or squeezed. No one is suggesting cancer but I'm trying to prepare myself for the worst.

I tried to find photo's of Chips lump but they aren't clear and it had gone down massively in the 4 days from seeing him at the trainer (who knew 11 days with someone could do so much damage...), bringing home and getting the vet coming out.

It was like you described...hard and no reaction to being palpated/poked/squeezed. It was so big when I saw him at the trainers that it was visible from the other side. She told she that she thought it happened 3 or 4 days before (but hadn't mentioned it or several other things until I got there). He certainly didnt have anything when he went there. My vet hadn't seen anything like it either and he was a lecturer. Initially it was the same size as the palm of my hand so similar to yoir horses I think without the teardrop shape.

Easy to say but try not to worry. The vets will know how best to diagnose this and just cross bridges when you get to them

 

[{138171}]

It's being scanned in house, then once they've seen inside it, it will be treated accordingly. Scanned once then treated will hopefully cut the bill down. That's the plan. Loading practice on a trailer not a box starts tomorrow. My funds are limited I can not afford for, needle aspiration, then biopsy, then scan, then removal if it requires it.

 

[ycbm]

If you know exactly what you are going to do and have ignored every piece of advice you've been given, why did you ask for advice? I feel like I've wasted my time.

Scanned with what?

Ultrasound? Why can't that be done at home?

MRI on an uninsured horse? You would be daft to agree, sorry if that sounds a bit rude.

Has it been needle aspirated, second time of asking?

.

 

[{138171}]

I didn't actually ask for advice on what to do about diagnosing it, I asked if people would put a horse that doesn't do well stuck in, through long treatment and box rest if it turns out to be something sinister. No as I have already explained it hasnt been needle aspirated, biopsied or anything else yet.

 

[TPO]

it's highly likely the lump has to be removed but if its cancerous, what you do? Would you put a pony that is bad to load and doesn't cope being in through long treatment periods? Or would you pts before it spread?

OP hasn't asked for opinions on how the vets are treating the lump or what should get done.

The questions are:

If it is cancerous and needs removed what would you do?

Would you put a horse that is a bad traveller and doesn't cope with box rest though a long period of that (if it was required)?

(If cancerous) would you put a horse through the treatment?

The OP is clearly worried about her horse, and making the right decision by her, and has jumped to the worse conclusion like a lot of us do when worried.

What some people gain out of picking holes and kicking someone when they are down is beyond me. This forum should be able to be used for support and comfort instead of them same vitriol from the same person

 

[ycbm]

I didn't actually ask for advice on what to do about diagnosing it, I asked if people would put a horse that doesn't do well stuck in, through long treatment and box rest if it turns out to be something sinister. No as I have already explained it hasnt been needle aspirated, biopsied or anything else yet.

Apologies, I mistook your title, and your apparent happiness until this point to engage in discussion about treatment options with me and several other posters. I'll bow out.


.

 

[ycbm]

What some people gain out of picking holes and kicking someone when they are down is beyond me. This forum should be able to be used for support and comfort instead of them same vitriol from the same person

The only vitriol on this thread is this sentence.





Good luck FTB.

 

[Northern]

Winnie is only 11yo avd truefully is just coming into her own. She taken a long time to come good and now this lump situation has come up. Because the lump is not covered on insurance my lovely vet is trying to make the best plan without wasting money, So she is supposed to be going in to the college for the surgeons to scan her, however Winnie is a horrifically bad loader, ranging from 45 minutes to 5 hours to get on the lorry/trailer! There is a possibility of a resident coming to the yard to scan her, it's highly likely the lump has to be removed but if its cancerous, what you do? Would you put a pony that is bad to load and doesn't cope being in through long treatment periods? Or would you pts before it spread? This is the lump causing all this concern.

I'm going to agree with ycbm, the very first thing I would expect a vet to do is stick a needle in and draw out whatever is in there (or not). It's cheap and takes 3 minutes and can actually reveal a surprising amount about the lump, so unsure why they haven't done that yet... You say the lump is "highly likely" to need to be removed, so actually a needle aspiration and biopsy makes more sense than scanning. To be completely honest if you can't afford to have it diagnosed properly, I can't see you affording removal and aftercare. That combined with her bad loading and if it is malignant it will probably show up in other places in time, I would probably tend towards PTS when it becomes uncomfortable for her. HOWEVER it could be benign, the ONLY way to find out is to do pathology on it. I would have another chat to your vets about it and get a second opinion if it were my horse.

 

[windand rain]

Simple answer is no I would not put any horse through cancer treatment but I would do all the tests necessary to find out what it was. I certainly would not assume it was cancer until a biopsy had been done

 

[{138171}]

Simple answer is no I would not put any horse through cancer treatment but I would do all the tests necessary to find out what it was. I certainly would not assume it was cancer until a biopsy had been done

I'm not assuming it's cancer I'm simply preparing for the worst, because of the size and location of the lump it's more than likely going to be removed aswell.

 

[tankgirl1]

Not read it all, but as a small animal VN fine needle aspirate biopsy is usually the cheapest and first port of call. Obviously I am not an equine VN but I can't understand why the process would be any different in a larger patient.