In the stable he's a monster!!

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Amy4444

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My horse is a 16.3 chestnut ISH, He's 6 yrs old and is out eventing around BE90/100. He's one of the best horses I have ever ridden and I do believe we will go quite far BUT... in the stable he's a monster!!
He launches at you over the stable door, tries to bite you, will turn on the door and kick, will definitely not let you touch him!
once you've got the head collar on and tied him up outside the stable, he will still attempt to bite you, kick you etc when grooming/ tacking up.

Then you get on and he's a saint!
Will load straight on to lorry or trailer and at any show or event, he's a saint!

I have tried different feeds, but because of his workload he still has to have that added extra!

I've honestly tried everything and I'm wondering if it is worth my time to get an animal behaviourist out?
 
Sounds like self defence to me - do you know his history? Maybe one of Intelligent Horsemanship's Recommended Associates can help - most are not hugely expensive and they are all trained and accredited http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html. I would be doing some groundwork, moving his feet, getting him accepting your leadership and thereby your right to invade his space when you need to.
 
Do you know his full history - is it possible that he's had bad handling experiences in/around a stable?

It seems, from what you say, that he is defensive of his stable and himself when you are dealing with him from the ground. I would be considering taking it right back to basics and dealing with him on the ground as if he is an unhandled youngster and start as if from scratch to see if that makes a difference.
 
What is his feed? Have you considered ulcers at all. My boy, who I had bred, became like this. Awful in the stable, brush, tack up and a saint to ride, no problems at all. Looked good, glossy coat, good condition.
It came to a head when I had to cross tie him up just to put his saddle on when I suddenly realised that something wasn't right & it needed investigating. Even the vet thought it wasn't ulcers but it was.
If you're feeding him to event I suspect you are feeding molasses, sugar? just a guess but worth considering maybe.
 
JillA said:
Sounds like self defence to me - do you know his history? Maybe one of Intelligent Horsemanship's Recommended Associates can help - most are not hugely expensive and they are all trained and accredited http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html.
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Thanks for link advice
 
I've never had a horse with ulcers, but don't understand why they would be ok on the ground and then a saint to ride? That immediate assumption doesn't add up to me, if the horse had ulcers surely it would be a ****** to ride.

I would say it's probably just behavioural. He's been allowed to get away with it. Without knowing more I can't really offer any help, be firm but fair and always reward the behaviour you want. I tried ignoring bad behaviours with my horse but it didn't work, he's the type that does need a hard slap on the shoulder and 'get up!'.

How long have you had him? Was he like this when you got him?
 
JillA said:
Sounds like self defence to me - do you know his history? Maybe one of Intelligent Horsemanship's Recommended Associates can help - most are not hugely expensive and they are all trained and accredited http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/specialist-horse-training.html. I would be doing some groundwork, moving his feet, getting him accepting your leadership and thereby your right to invade his space when you need to.
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Completely unknown history as he's from sales in Ireland thanks for advice!im going to try more groundwork :)
 
I think a behavourist would be a good idea, the horse is mature and this has been going on for a long time. It sounds defensive, maybe he was beaten up in the stable at one time.

I had a young mare that was like this, I had never had a nasty horse to deal with before, I used to dread fetching her in from the field, and she wasn't nearly as bad as your horse. Like yours she was a dream to ride and load, etc. I got some very valuable advice from a horse behaviourist and it gave me confidence and some pointers, some of which I had already worked out for myself. She never became easy and continued to be suspicious and grumpy, but she was far more amenable and could be managed.
 
marmalade88 said:
I've never had a horse with ulcers, but don't understand why they would be ok on the ground and then a saint to ride? That immediate assumption doesn't add up to me, if the horse had ulcers surely it would be a ****** to ride.

I would say it's probably just behavioural. He's been allowed to get away with it. Without knowing more I can't really offer any help, be firm but fair and always reward the behaviour you want. I tried ignoring bad behaviours with my horse but it didn't work, he's the type that does need a hard slap on the shoulder and 'get up!'.

How long have you had him? Was he like this when you got him?
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I agree with the ulcers, as when he's stabled away from home for a night he's lovely and nice in field etc good to tack up away from home no issues with girth. He almost thrives from a good telling off, he will launch at you try to bite you and then hide in the corner as if to say '***** this is guna hurt'

I've had him since May, it took him a good couple of days to settle, and then the behaviour started only after a few days, it seems the more he settles the worse he is.

I've also tried 'musical stables' that works for a couple of hours!!!
 
Orangehorse said:
I think a behavourist would be a good idea, the horse is mature and this has been going on for a long time. It sounds defensive, maybe he was beaten up in the stable at one time.

I had a young mare that was like this, I had never had a nasty horse to deal with before, I used to dread fetching her in from the field, and she wasn't nearly as bad as your horse. Like yours she was a dream to ride and load, etc. I got some very valuable advice from a horse behaviourist and it gave me confidence and some pointers, some of which I had already worked out for myself. She never became easy and continued to be suspicious and grumpy, but she was far more amenable and could be managed.
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Which behaviourist did you use? He's a nice horse in every other way just the stable manners :(
 
My husband's ex racing TB tried this sort of behaviour in the stable. We reckoned (along with cribibiting) he had learned it on the racing yard.

Having said this, there were certain people he respected, and they never needed to say more than 'get back' to him... Everyone else (including me) - he chased them out of his stable. His bark was worse than his bite though (if you pardon the pun) so we put up with the old monster for many years.....

He could behave if he needed to ie if he had one of his many foot abcesses he would stand perfectly still while you treated it, so we eventually came to the conclusion he was a v clever horse and just liked to test the boundaries if he got away with it..

Fiona
 
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If he has come from Ireland chances are he has been on the receiving end of some fairly tough training, and a bit like a dog who is used to being thrashed, offers appeasing behaviour afterwards.
Has he actually made contact/hurt anyone? Or is it just bravado to stop himself being hurt? Quiet confident consistent handling will begin to gain his trust - the worst thing you can do IMHO is punish him, that will confirm for him that he does need to defend himself. Desensitise by approach and retreat (only retreat when he isn't aggressive) and negative reinforcement when grooming (stop brushing when he stops threatening, let him learn how to make you stop by stopping what he is doing) as well as the ground work. I have had a lot of success with teaching horses about personal space, the problem is it is easy to show, less easy to explain. Where are you, maybe we can suggest someone local to you
 
Amy4444 said:
I agree with the ulcers, as when he's stabled away from home for a night he's lovely and nice in field etc good to tack up away from home no issues with girth. He almost thrives from a good telling off, he will launch at you try to bite you and then hide in the corner as if to say '***** this is guna hurt'

I've had him since May, it took him a good couple of days to settle, and then the behaviour started only after a few days, it seems the more he settles the worse he is.

I've also tried 'musical stables' that works for a couple of hours!!!
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I have had a horse with ulcers and they really can be very different on the ground to on their backs - it doesn't seem to make sense but there you are, that's horses for you. However as yours is good when he's away it does sound more behavioural and defensive & I hope you get to the bottom of it or at least a compromise !
 
JillA said:
If he has come from Ireland chances are he has been on the receiving end of some fairly tough training, and a bit like a dog who is used to being thrashed, offers appeasing behaviour afterwards.
Has he actually made contact/hurt anyone? Or is it just bravado to stop himself being hurt? Quiet confident consistent handling will begin to gain his trust - the worst thing you can do IMHO is punish him, that will confirm for him that he does need to defend himself. Desensitise by approach and retreat (only retreat when he isn't aggressive) and negative reinforcement when grooming (stop brushing when he stops threatening, let him learn how to make you stop by stopping what he is doing) as well as the ground work. I have had a lot of success with teaching horses about personal space, the problem is it is easy to show, less easy to explain. Where are you, maybe we can suggest someone local to you
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He's eaten my grooms elbow and took a chunk out of my arm, but only ever in his stable, I'm near Grantham Lincolnshire
 
Gary Bosworth is in Lincs - he is an RA and very good. Worth a chat at least http://www.equineempathy.com/ . The problem with aggressive horses is the same as with aggressive dogs - it is too easy to make the problem worse if you prescribe a plan of action without seeing the animal and assessing its behaviour for yourself.
 
Pinkvboots said:
I thought this my friend had a gelding that was rejected by his mum and hand reared some days he would be fine in the stable and on others he would really want to bite you and not give up it was almost like a game, ridden he was an angel never had a problem with him.
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That is just it, orphaned or well meaning but fool reared foals are bold, they play 'horse play' with humans.
 
This ^
I have a 17.2 beast who was reared as an only foal and very much cuddled/spoilt/treated as a baby by the breeder. It's taken a very long time to get him sensible and mannerly. Now had I not witnessed the handling as a foal, I might have jumped to the wrong conclusions about why he was rude, in your face, and always finding new ways to test the boundaries.
So my guess is behavioural...ulcers are definitely the excuse of the moment!
 
JillA said:
If he has come from Ireland chances are he has been on the receiving end of some fairly tough training, and a bit like a dog who is used to being thrashed, offers appeasing behaviour afterwards.
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Yes because we are all uncouth savages over here who mistreat anything on four legs!!! I do get very tired of seeing such stereotypical slurs on here - makes me wonder if all horse owners in the UK are absolute saints ?

Sorry for hijacking your post OP - just saw red for a moment. I would imagine a visit from a behaviourist might be helpful together with a medical check for any possibly physical cause. Individual horses are just that - individual. Some may need a soft approach to gain their trust while others may be testing your role in the relationship and looking for you to set clear boundaries. Either way, consistency and fair firmness should help - best of luck with sorting it out. Meantime console yourself with how great he is ridden :)
 
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