inappropriate behaviour for dressage judges?

O

odemae

Member
Joined
12 July 2011
Messages
23
Visit site
My daughter was competing in an unaffiliated competition, I was calling for her. The test asked for transition from trot to walk one horses length. She did this and proceeded in trot. The judge beeped her horn, as we both knew the test was being ridden correctly we both looked at the judge who hung out of her car window and shouted "you didn't walk". My daughter said she had and I also confirmed this, the judge said sorry she hadn't seen it. My daughter carried on but obviously it had unsettled her. When she did her halt and salute the judge got out her car and went storming over to G and screeched at my daughter "you didn't walk", my daughter replied yes I did, the judge argued, I was still standing where I had always been - B - where I had been calling, I said "why can't you let her leave the arena and go back to prepare for her next test and start afresh - and perhaps watch her next time" (this was probably a bit sarcastic but she was winding us up). She again said she hadn't walked, I said yes she had and turned to ask people if they had seen her walk. The judge came storming over to me in quite an agressive manner and said "she didn't do a relaxed walk".I said maybe it wasn't relaxed but it was still a walk. Another competitor said she had seen the walk, the judge said not enough! At this point I told her to get lost and walked away. She had made me very angry, and the only thing to do was to withdraw from the next 2 tests. Can anyone tell me 1) should she have pipped for an unrelaxed walk? She changed from no walk to not relaxed and then not enough!. 2) The judge getting out of the car to challenge my daughter about this when technically the test hadn't finished as she hadn't left the arena, 3) walking down the arena to me to screech like a fishwife and try arguing?
 
I have to say it all sounds very inappropriate! She shouldnt have beeped if it wasnt relaxed/not for long enough just mark your daughter down for that part. As for storming up to your daughter and then you that is very rude. I would have certainly been mad and asking for my money back due to the rudeness of the judge.
 
Doesn't sound like appropriate behaviour....

Slightly off the point, I was having a test called for me the other day when a woman walked up to my caller and started asking her questions about where the secretary's tent was etc. Luckily I was pretty familiar with the test so I could carry on while my caller was otherwise engaged!
 
dizzydancer said:
I have to say it all sounds very inappropriate! She shouldnt have beeped if it wasnt relaxed/not for long enough just mark your daughter down for that part. As for storming up to your daughter and then you that is very rude. I would have certainly been mad and asking for my money back due to the rudeness of the judge.
Click to expand...

thanks for the support - I thought it was me! I did ask for a refund but surprise surprise the organisors seemed to have been as elusive as Bin Laden!! The alarming thing is the judge competes at international level
 
I would have said that it was not only inappropriate but incorrect. IMHO the judge should beep you for an error of course but if they feel that a movement was not performed then you would be marked down. Having said that, it's a few years since I've completed and I may be well out of date! I am sure someone will be able to confirm or correct me.

Sadly the judging at many unaffiliated dressage competitions leave much to be desired but it's often a case of beggars can't be chosers as it does tend to be a thankless task for judges and writers. I'm not saying this is the case with your daughter but I have had experience of too many riders claiming black is white if they don't go home with a prize.
 
sally2008 said:
I would have said that it was not only inappropriate but incorrect. IMHO the judge should beep you for an error of course but if they feel that a movement was not performed then you would be marked down. Having said that, it's a few years since I've completed and I may be well out of date! I am sure someone will be able to confirm or correct me.

Sadly the judging at many unaffiliated dressage competitions leave much to be desired but it's often a case of beggars can't be chosers as it does tend to be a thankless task for judges and writers. I'm not saying this is the case with your daughter but I have had experience of too many riders claiming black is white if they don't go home with a prize.
Click to expand...

I agree totally with the pothunters but as she had done the walk thats why we both looked blankly at the judge to begin with
 
That's just plain rude. I've never seen a judge do this but it doesn't sound appropriate. I have forgotten to walk on a test and rather than toot the horn, it just got reflected on my score sheet with a comment (no walk shown) rather than disrupting and marking it with an error of course.

At the weekend I did my first novice test and a prelim test. In the prelim test we literally left the arena due to my horse napping. He got a sharp boot and re-entered the arena but past the place where the next transition should have been - so I did a wee circle and restarted the movement. I was listening for an error or course toot but thankfully the judge could see that we'd regained our composure and allowed us to continue on. We did get a low mark, quite rightly. In the novice we had a movement of trotting across the diagnol with some medium trots shown. I tried to blag it a bit by slowing up the trot at the corners and back to working trot (horse just WASNT having any medium trot that day). Judge busted me on the score sheet, but certainly never stopped the test to scold me! Though I have joked that had it been my RI in the car judging she'd so have busted our butts and made us do the movement again and again and again til we did it right! LOL

Personally, I think you should complain to the orgs. THey might have had other complaints to give them cause to not ask the judge back again.
 
sally2008 said:
I would have said that it was not only inappropriate but incorrect. IMHO the judge should beep you for an error of course but if they feel that a movement was not performed then you would be marked down. Having said that, it's a few years since I've completed and I may be well out of date! I am sure someone will be able to confirm or correct me.
Click to expand...

Yes this is my understanding of it too, I had a pony that wouldn't do free walk at all, so we used to just not bother and sacrifice the marks (which would have been a 3 or 4 anyway) and ensure the rest of the test went smoothly instead of potentially ruining 3 or 4 movements.
That said OP, I don't think your behaviour or reaction was entirely appropriate either....
 
Last edited:
No, not on and makes me think the judge and her writer must have been having a good chinwag.

Insufficient/not relaxed enough/disobedient etc, they aren't valid reasons (IMO and to the best of my knowledge) to interrupt someone's test. Movement not present, or an additional movement, yes they would be valid reasons to.

I hate writing for judges who frequently mistake errors of course when actually its been ok. It frequently results in the horse and rider feeling less settled for the rest of the test and getting lower marks as a result.
 
I checked and no she isn't, but as I say she is an international rider in her field so does that mean she automatically has a fastrack ticket to judging? I truly believe she was wrong and using bully boy tactics to cover her error
 
I agree I wasn't entirely appropriate and didn't sleep that well that night as I felt bad, but it was so frustrating, particularly when others verified the movement had been done. The judge would not let it drop , she went on and on trying to convince us that the walk had not happened. Anyway neither of us moved, she was the one who strode across the arena in quite a threatening way, what are we supposed to do?
 
Just playing devil's advocate here, is it possible that the pony jogged rather than did a proper walk, hence the confusion? Was that same movement required on the other rein, in which case the judge might have been drawing the rider's attention to the perceived error so that it was not repeated a second time.
 
no the horse definitely walked, as another competitor witnessed, she told the judge she saw it for 2 full strides, thats when the judge back tracked and said to her "well thats not enough". To rid of any confusion my daughter is not a child on a scruffy pony, she is 30 and regularly scores high marks.
 
odemae said:
Anyway neither of us moved, she was the one who strode across the arena in quite a threatening way, what are we supposed to do?
Click to expand...

Be gracious and walk away :)
I have had this happen with a listed judge, who insisted I missed a circle (which I hadn't) at that point you smile and continue as if nothing has happened while muttering under your breath. I also don't think it sets a good example to your daughter who was by the sounds of it a little upset by the judges behaviour so it would have been better for your daughter to see a rational calm response from you.
As someone who judges at unaff it is quite hard sometimes to see what movements kids are actually doing so I usually tend to give the benefit of the doubt and award marks to 'the movement of best fit'!
 
odemae said:
no the horse definitely walked, as another competitor witnessed, she told the judge she saw it for 2 full strides, thats when the judge back tracked and said to her "well thats not enough". To rid of any confusion my daughter is not a child on a scruffy pony, she is 30 and regularly scores high marks.
Click to expand...

Ooops sorry ignore my last post, I took it that your daughter was 8!
:eek:
 
odemae said:
To rid of any confusion my daughter is not a child on a scruffy pony, she is 30 and regularly scores high marks.
Click to expand...

Blimey - I thought you were talking about a young child by the way you were talking! At 30 I would have thought she was old enough to deal with the judge herself without her mother having to intervene, and definitely old enough to carry on with the other tests whatever had happened previously!
 
I had an affiliated judge harangue me for not plaiting.

BEFORE I started my test.

And it is NOT a requirement to plait for affiliated dressage.

It put me right off my test and I thought it was bang out of order. No, I didn't complain, she judges there often and I can't afford to make an enemy of her :(
 
Why is it that when given the title of "Dressage Judge" for a few hours some people think it is an excuse to behave anyway they like and the ruder they are then the more important they are and less important you are?? !!:eek:


I know there are many many nice judges out ther.

However when I've spent hours practising, got up early, scrubbed myself and the horse, driven miles, spent a fortune on petrol and lessons, I don't want to be spoken to or treated like some naughtly child !:p:p
 
my daughter did challenge the comment but she just was not listening - and yet again when I tried to back my daughter up that she had done the walk and with witnesses - the judge came over and into my face - my daughter was still on her horse in the centre of the arena - you really had to be there - everyone heard her say to my daughter in a loud voice that she hadn't done the walk, she really should have just have allowed to have left the arena and just commented on the quality or "no steps shown" it was so bad my daughter felt she was unable to carry on, you appear to be the only person on here who sounds to be actually believing it was appropriate behaviour
 
you are so right and luckily everywhere else she has been the judges are lovely. On hindsight snobbery does appear to be the root of it, she(the judge) is successful, however she did miss that movement and didn't like to admit she was wrong, but the confrontation could so easily have been avoided. All judges must miss things at times but she really should have the grace to have accepted it.
 
Last edited:
i have friends who are dressage judges and I've been a writer many times. That judge was not doing herself any favours. Of course riders don't always do every movement perfectly or if we did then we'd get 10 for everything. Should have only beeped if it was an error of course....

Well....what goes around comes around...no doubt her behaviour was witnessed by many and others will think twice before using her as a judge at another event.

.....it is supposed to be fun!
 
cptrayes said:
I had an affiliated judge harangue me for not plaiting.

BEFORE I started my test.

And it is NOT a requirement to plait for affiliated dressage.

It put me right off my test and I thought it was bang out of order. No, I didn't complain, she judges there often and I can't afford to make an enemy of her :(
Click to expand...

Where do the ideas for turnout in dressage come from? Everyone plaits, uses white saddlecloths etc but these little extras do not seem to be in the rules?

OP, the judge sounds like she was covering up for not paying enough attention.
 
TGM said:
Blimey - I thought you were talking about a young child by the way you were talking! At 30 I would have thought she was old enough to deal with the judge herself without her mother having to intervene, and definitely old enough to carry on with the other tests whatever had happened previously!
Click to expand...

Bit harsh? I think if what the op is saying happened in that sequence, then I too would have probably felt too upset to carry on, and I'm older than 30. If the judge believed the movement had been missed (whether it was done or not is a little irrelevant) she should have simply marked accordingly to what she saw, but I've never known of a judge storming across the arena and being confrontational about a movement being missed. I'd have been shaken if that happened to me too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top