incentive to use a british stallion

[mikebizz]

is there any incentives mare owners would like to see stallion owners offer that would make them choose a british standing stallion instead of going abroad..... such as no foal no fee?.. or free return with any mare ?.. or reduced fee for more than one mare ... possible option for selling on the foal ?.. Do stallion owners do enough? I'm not saying they dont but this year is as good as its gonna get for getting value from the pound... could be the year to buy british!

 

[sallyf]

Well as a british stallion owner we already offer all of those.
For mares visiting we dont take a stud fee unless the mare is scanned in foal and then it is LFG with the free return to a differant mare if needs be.
So i will read the replys to this thread with interest as i feel we British stallion owners should do all we can to help in these hard times.

 

[maestro]

We are always no live foal free return and that includes foals that are born alive but dont survive. (Within reason) At the end of the day foals on the ground are what makes the stallion and returns the business.

 

[jomiln]

We also offer no foal free return - for another mare if required and sometimes can be swopped for another stallion.
This year we are offering our 1st shipped semen at a discounted price and for mares visiting us and booked early - a free week's livery.

What things would mare owner's like stallion owners to consider as incentives.

 

[magic104]

All these things might help, but if a mare owner does not feel the UK has a good enough stallion for what they are breeding then you are not going to change their minds by these incentives.

 

[Maggie2]

I think that NFFR is a better deal for both sides in some respects, as I am sure that many stallion owners have failed to obtain payment on 1st October from some mare owners.

Flexibilty is valued, a mare may have died, been sold etc. and it'd be appreciated if the stallion owner was prepared to assist there. The free return is never free for the mare owner who has to pay again for the vets fees and keep and so on, so although no stud fee topay it is not cheap, plus they have kept the mare empty for a year.

Discount for multiple mares is an incentive if you have several mares and the stud has stallions to suit.

Where I think English/UK studs can score is being able to send semen with a more reliable delivery than some, and I emphasise the some, foreign studs can.

Things are going to be tight for everyone this year. I don't stand a stallion but am sure that there are things stud owners would appreciate from mare owners, such as ringing the stud at 4.00 pm asking for semen to be sent that day.

Live foal terms are very helpful at a distressing time, wouldn't choose a stallion on that basis, but is a factor to keep in mind.

 

[alleycat]

I think I would be happier to have a split fee; a small sum set against the cost of the covering, paid up front and non-returnable, then the bulk of the fee payable either against the mare being in foal or, better still, against the mare having a live sucking foal.

I know it doesn't give stallion owners a guarantee of the whole of the stud fee, but I think that it does give them more incentive to provide customer satisfaction at the same time as allowing them to turn down a mare that they suspect is likely to be a problem.

There have been a few postings on here where mare owners have been unhappy with the way the covering or insemination has been handled or the way the mare has been treated at stud; these people have been in two minds as to whether to use or lose their return option. At the same time I bet there are quite a few stud owners who would rather not see particular mares or their people ever again!

Again, I have heard of mares returning unsuccessfully for a second covering; the mare owner then loses the whole fee.

NFFR doesn't give either the stud or the owner the chance to cut their losses which is especially difficult if the relationship between mare ownwer and stallion owner has broken down at all.

 

[shazza283]

I know I'm probably in the minority on here but breeding mostly for myself and for pleasure I always go to see the stallion first - I've looked at stallions abroad but always held back because I couldn't see the stallion in person.
I know that grading is supposed to give you confidence but visiting the stud, meeting the stallion, seeing his stock is invaluable in knowing what sort of animal you could breed.
The stallions I've used over the last few years have all had fantastic temperaments and great conformation which suits the mares I've put them on - and I knew that all came out in their stock - ended up with some fabulous youngsters with temperaments that are 2nd to none!

Would prefer NFNF to NFFR - just my opinion - plans change - sometimes you need a year off breeding etc etc.

Personally I'm a massive fan of British Stallions - long live the Brits

 

[Hann]

The high quality performance tested stallions will be a good buy but you have to sell the foals and if the mare is not of exceptional quality you might do well to think twice

 

[Bananaman]

I am offering a discount to graded mares or to more than one mare. At the moment he is NFFR and as he is being handled by Groomsbridge for covering purposes, I have every faith in their ability to do a good job.
If someone prefered different terms, I would certainly be open to discussion.

 

[shirleyno2]

I also have stallions and offer NFFR, valid for 3 years, to a different mare or stallion where neccesary. I don't do NFNF as I have had too many unscrupulous [sp] mare owners who tell you mare has slipped foal and next spring you hear through the grapevine that they have a lovely foal, that is when I find out letters from vets are fake . It is very hard to argue this point at the time as you may have a distressed mare owner.
On multiple mares a discount is available on last mare AI'd depending on how many mares and which stallions.

 

[magic104]

I also have stallions and offer NFFR, valid for 3 years, to a different mare or stallion where neccesary. I don't do NFNF as I have had too many unscrupulous [sp] mare owners who tell you mare has slipped foal and next spring you hear through the grapevine that they have a lovely foal, that is when I find out letters from vets are fake . It is very hard to argue this point at the time as you may have a distressed mare owner.

If the mare owner does that wont they lose the breeding of the sire? If the mare owner does not have a covering cert, I did not think they could record the sire's breeding.

The 1st time I bred I paid on collection of the mare, but she had been confirmed in-foal by an internal (after suffering hormon problems & a cyst). The 2nd time was the same payment on collection. And every time after that payment up front. The last time if I had not paid up front I would have gone to a different stallion with all the hassel I got.

I am another who would not use a stallion unseen as I dont think you can beat the personal approach. I dont think photo's are always a good indication, video footage is better. There is a coloured stallion who I have been put off by his photo, yet I am assured he is very nice in the flesh. For me I would like a NFNF Oct 1st terms, but I dont think those terms are applicable for AI.

 

[mikebizz]

interesting infomative answers guys certainly making me think about using british this year..
My favorite mare had a foal at 4 then tried again at 8 i have since spent a fortune trying but not getting her in foal this i would say is my mares problem and therefore not the responsibility of the stallion owner...to my cost , but hey my choise... but knowing all the above info it would be worth the try..

What we need is a magician!! ...... and someone in the UK to buy Cassini and Sandro Boy ..

 

[Springs]

We are very flexiable with our terms and offer NFNF or NFFR depending on what the mare owner prefers as we are small enough to do this.

There are a lot of good british stallions out there, but I think that the one thing that we don't do as well as our European frends is market them or there young stock well. This is starting to change through the Futurity and PSHP.

I also like to see what I am getting when using an outside stallion as pictures and DVD do not do them justice somtimes so it is important to be able to see them.

 

[alleycat]

Would say that I too have always had to pay on collection of mare, which is fair enough, either with free return or with sum refundable if mare not in foal.

The sheer gall of the mare owner in Shirley's case is astounding. I suppose with NFFR, though, they could have sent you a different mare and got two!

My wariness of NFFR stems originally from something I saw when I moved my horses from one livery yard to another twenty miles closer to my home in the middle of the breeding season. Although the horse world is small it is fragmented and the YOs did not know each other.

At my old yard, two mares had gone to a well known local stallion; one came back in foal; the other didn't take; she was too lean and fit; let her down a bit more, said the stud owner. At my new yard, two more mares, mother and daughter; neither took; too fat, slim them down, said the stud owner (fair comment, though neither was grossly overweight).

The lean mare went back for her free return the next year nicely rounded and in prime condition; didn't take. The two fat mares went back slimmed down and in good shape; didn't take either.

Whether this was just the luck of the draw and the stud wasn't at fault, I don't know; one observer did remark that there was more semen on the floor than near the mare, so it may have been a handling problem of some sort. However, due to NFFR the stud had collected four fees with only one foal to show for it; it seemed to me that NFFR was allowing this stud to operate at the mare owners' expense without questioning its own "strike rate" because there was no real incentive to do better.

This isn't intended as a criticism of studs in general; most value their reputation and know what they are doing, but there are still some cowboys out there.

(In this case I must add that it was a long time ago and I doubt that the stud still exists, so don't panic; this stallion isn't on your list for next year!)

 

[sallyf]

This is one of the reasons for our visiting mares why we do stud fee payable when scanned in foal and then no live foal free return as just occasionally you find a mare with a real problem and we then give the mare owner the choice whether they want to continue and risk vets bills and possibly no pregnancy or they just say no thanks and walk away with a small amount of costs and no obligation to try again because they have had to fork out a stud fee.

[ QUOTE ]
Would say that I too have always had to pay on collection of mare, which is fair enough, either with free return or with sum refundable if mare not in foal.

The sheer gall of the mare owner in Shirley's case is astounding. I suppose with NFFR, though, they could have sent you a different mare and got two!

My wariness of NFFR stems originally from something I saw when I moved my horses from one livery yard to another twenty miles closer to my home in the middle of the breeding season. Although the horse world is small it is fragmented and the YOs did not know each other.

At my old yard, two mares had gone to a well known local stallion; one came back in foal; the other didn't take; she was too lean and fit; let her down a bit more, said the stud owner. At my new yard, two more mares, mother and daughter; neither took; too fat, slim them down, said the stud owner (fair comment, though neither was grossly overweight).

The lean mare went back for her free return the next year nicely rounded and in prime condition; didn't take. The two fat mares went back slimmed down and in good shape; didn't take either.

Whether this was just the luck of the draw and the stud wasn't at fault, I don't know; one observer did remark that there was more semen on the floor than near the mare, so it may have been a handling problem of some sort. However, due to NFFR the stud had collected four fees with only one foal to show for it; it seemed to me that NFFR was allowing this stud to operate at the mare owners' expense without questioning its own "strike rate" because there was no real incentive to do better.

This isn't intended as a criticism of studs in general; most value their reputation and know what they are doing, but there are still some cowboys out there.

(In this case I must add that it was a long time ago and I doubt that the stud still exists, so don't panic; this stallion isn't on your list for next year!)

[/ QUOTE ]

 

[shirleyno2]

If I had that strike rate I'd give up altogether!!
Re If the mare owner does that wont they lose the breeding of the sire? If the mare owner does not have a covering cert, I did not think they could record the sire's breeding.
Unfortunately some owners don't actually care for breeding papers and lets face it; if you could buy a really decent horse with no breeding at a value price, it passed the vet, would you NOT buy it because of no papers??????

 

[FoalLover]

We offer no foal free return and can be swopped between mares and our stallions if needs be. We are also offering discounted coverings this year from some of our stallions. We always take payment up front as sometimes you find mare owners do not pay and you spend a lots of time chasing them.
Delivery on semen is always at cost.

 

[JuliaFSH]

At Future Sport Horses we offer -

- Live Foal Guarantee on all but one of our stallions

- multiple mare discounts

- concessions to proven mares

- discounts for mares booked before 31st March

- discounts for mares whose foal by one of our stallions has been presented for grading with the BEF and awarded a 1st premium.

- discounts for mares returning to one of our stallions after using one the previous year

We try very hard to offer great incentives for mare owners to buy semen from British sources!

 

[cundlegreen]

As a stallion owner, I'm very keen to see all visiting mares get in foal, as I know how fertile my boy is. I always advise mare owners to get their older mares scanned to check that they can still get in foal, this saves a lot of time and expense for the mare owner in the long run. Unfortunately I had two mares come here a couple of years ago that had been ok'd by their vets, and neither was ever going to get in foal due to their uterine condition. Although our terms were NFFR I refunded the mare owners covering fees as they were one mare owners. I have now changed to NFNF at a 42 day scan. I keep the covering fee with me until this date, then the onus is on the mare owner to get their mare scanned. I think that this is fair to the small or one time breeder. We are only a small concern, but I do think customer service is vital, especially this year when everybody will be tightening their belts. I'd be interested to know if you breeders think this is the way to go.