Increase in value post backing

zaminda

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Having a discussion with a friend recently, who for her own health related issues (not horse related) has decided that she is unable to keep a horse that she bred. He has yet to be started and we were weighing up the pro's and con's of backing before sale. He is nearly 7, and well bred for performance. If he were backed, and it would probably be just backed, and maybe hacked lightly due to a lack of time/transport/suitable rider, how much would you expect the value to go up?
Also in a situation like this, would you rather buy a blank canvas or something that has been sat on?
Any thoughts?
 

ihatework

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Are you going to pay a pro to back the horse?

An unbacked/just backed 7yo is not an attractive prospect for many purchasers.

You could end up paying a grand to get the horse going and still not sell it.

I'd be tempted to try unbacked to start with.
 

eggs

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Can't answer your question re increase in value without knowing more details about the horse. To be perfectly honest I would not have thought an unbacked seven year old would attract much interest.
 

zaminda

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Would be paying for a pro yes, as friend has health issues which have sadly not resolved as hoped. This is the reason he hasn't been started!
 

noodle_

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tbh i wouldnt touch a horse that had not been backed age 7.....

even at 5 im wary about touching if it hasnt been backed.


defo better value in backed v unbacked tho...
 

pinkypug1

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i wouldn't think the cost of getting pro to back and have a horse schooled for. A few weeks in the basics would be recovered in the sale price tbh. To do the job properly it will take at least 5-8 weeks and the horse will be walk, trot, canter & jump a few small fences in a school, & have been hacked. My homebred was professionally backed and schooled at a cost of £500 per month.
 

kc100

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Backed typically increases the value yes - but I would say that because he is 7 and still hasnt done anything that is going to be more of an issue than anything else. Even if he was backed and ridden away, as a potential buyer I'd stay well clear of a 7 year old that has never competed....never done anything really other than being sent away to be backed.

Unbacked 7 year old or a just backed 7 year old.....neither are attractive prospects unless his breeding is AMAZING and you could get a bargain. Horses at that age that havent done anything scream issues - even if there is a genuine reason when a buyer sees the advert they are going to think 'problem horse' straight away.

I'd be wary of an unbacked 5 year old, so a 7 year old really isnt going to appeal to many people. If it were my horse I'd be cutting my losses and getting a minimal amount for him as a project for an experienced home. I doubt in this case backing him is going to vastly increase his value, maybe by another £500-£1000 but I bet you'd have to drop that after a few months when there is little interest.

In this case there is only 1 thing that is going to increase his value - keep him for another year, get him backed ASAP and then send to a pro to compete/bring on. So then you'd at least have an 8 year old that has seen the world, done a couple of low level comps and proven himself at whatever discipline he is bred for. That would add (depending on his results and if he was affiliated in that space of time) I'd say £3000 - £5000 onto his value.

At the moment, backed or unbacked, I wouldnt pay much more than £1000-£1500 for a horse like that. But an 8 year old that has been professionally started, hacks out well, pops a few jumps and does a decent dressage test - the typical RC horse - that should warrant a £5k price, maybe more if his results are good.
 

PorkChop

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A 7 year old that had not been backed would not worry me - if I had bred it - however, I would not buy an unbacked 7 year old as I would not trust that it had been untouched.

Far better that it is sent away to be backed, I would allow £1500 for the horse to be taken to the stage of being able to be advertised :)
 

smja

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I'd back it, and include in advert a brief reason for delay (started late due to owner health issues or similar). One of ours was 6yo and only recently lightly backed (sat on, walk and trot) when we bought him, so I wouldn't be put off by that. However, I probably wouldn't buy something 7yo and completely unbacked, though.
 

ihatework

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A 7 year old that had not been backed would not worry me - if I had bred it - however, I would not buy an unbacked 7 year old as I would not trust that it had been untouched.

Far better that it is sent away to be backed, I would allow £1500 for the horse to be taken to the stage of being able to be advertised :)

I agree in theory, but in reality would you hand over reasonable money for a just backed 7yo? I know I wouldn't.

I fear OP might need to spend that 1.5k just to make the horse sellable. Whether you make much/anything on top will in part be down to luck.

A difficult situation for all involved.

I think I would be tempted personally to stick an advert in at a low price unbacked, with a comment along the lines of 'this horse is genuinely untried due to personal circumstances and is priced accordingly. Price will rise after backing, which can be arranged at buyers request if required'
 

pennyturner

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I'm another that would suspect back issues and walk away unless very cheap.
If you can back easily, I would do that, but paying a pro might not pay you back.
 

popsdosh

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Its a huge dilemna because I feel you are very unlikely to ever recover your costs whatever you do and potentially could lose the lot.
 

Tobiano

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gosh this is such a difficult one! I can totally see why people would not want it 'unbacked' in case it had been tried and either broken down, or had hideous behavioural issues. Absolutely not saying OP that this is the case but I dare say plenty of people have been caught out by it from unscrupulous sellers in the past.

But also agree with those who say the cost of having him professionally backed is unlikely to be recouped in the price if he is sold - as there will be a lot of 7YO who have competed etc.

Very difficult. If he were my horse though I would send him away to be backed as I think this would give him the best chance of a good home and at least I could ensure he had had a good start in ridden life.
 

zaminda

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Thanks for the replies. I will say not my horse, and if I was closer in distance to my friend would probably already have backed him, as I do rather like him, and I do it for a living! (Hence knowing how much it would cost to use a pro)
 

Pennythetank

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I wouldn't buy an unbacked 7yr old either. However if I was in your shoes I would get him backed and give him to a young adult or competent teenager to have a fun with for a couple of moths,under the conditions that he needs to attend either schooling shows or pony club camp etc. I would then give the rider 20-30% of the selling price.
 

Vodkagirly

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I wouldn’t buy an unbacked 7 year old And would be hesitant of a recently back one. Could you get professionally backed then a summer loan to someone who will get it out and about?
 

Amicus

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Does she know anyone who would like to loan him once he'd had been started to get a season of work under his belt, maybe with the agreement of profit share if they increased his value?
 

Goldenstar

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Its a huge dilemna because I feel you are very unlikely to ever recover your costs whatever you do and potentially could lose the lot.

I agree if I where in this situation I know exactly who I would give the horse too to start and place in a home and that's what I would do give it to someone to start and let them recoup their costs selling him on .
 

SpringArising

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I'd buy an unbacked seven year old, but only if I really liked the horse and if it was for a good price.

I would personally rather buy an unbacked seven year old than a four/five year old who's already done a lot and has competed (even if it was only locally).
 

ljohnsonsj

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I'd buy it broken and riding away at this age, I would be skeptical about buying a horse unbroken at rising 7, It makes me immediately think there has been problems in the breaking process however a green late starter is much more appealing to me
 

ester

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Money wise I would advertise as is with full explanation as to why he was I backed.

However as a responsible owner/breeder I would get him broken so that he gets the best chance of future life.
 

rowan666

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I wouldn't buy an unbacked 7yr old either. However if I was in your shoes I would get him backed and give him to a young adult or competent teenager to have a fun with for a couple of moths,under the conditions that he needs to attend either schooling shows or pony club camp etc. I would then give the rider 20-30% of the selling price.
^^ this is what i would do
 

oldie48

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This is what I was thinking of. A friend of mine did this with a rather smart mare that she bred for herself but after backing she found she was too much for her. Consequently her education didn't go as planned. she came to an arrangement with a local rider who got her out and about, to competitions and eventually she was sold. my friend didn't really make much money but she didn't lose any either, she got rid of what was becoming a problem and the horse got a proper home.
I wouldn't buy an unbacked 7yr old either. However if I was in your shoes I would get him backed and give him to a young adult or competent teenager to have a fun with for a couple of moths,under the conditions that he needs to attend either schooling shows or pony club camp etc. I would then give the rider 20-30% of the selling price.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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If I was young and fit and a really good type of horse came up, with this history, I would be fine with it, but I know most people want everything on a plate. It is the opportunity to get a quality horse at a reasonable price, and we see people on here looking for just that.
Any horse can be too much for the rider, when broken there are no guarantees even if starting at 4 year old.
 
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kez81

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I would buy an unbacked seven year old as I prefer not to back until atleast four and half anyway. I prefer to take things a bit slower and let them mature properly. However i would not be expecting to pay a lot for him especially if he has not been out in traffic as this takes so much time to get right. In the past I have taken on horses older than this as projects but have usually had a three month loan with view to buy so I can spend enough time getting to know the nature of the horse and seeing of he is willing to learn or going to be a problem. If the horse proves difficult I send him back losing a small deposit and the owner gets her horse back at least having had more of an education than he left with.
I would look to get this horse backed and lightly schooled on and hacked in traffic to increase his appeal to buyers.
 

Penumbra

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It's not about wanting everything on a plate, it's about unfortunately not trusting sellers. It's not unheard of for people to buy four/five year old horses as "un-backed" only to later realise they have been badly started or weren't ridden due to a physical problem. If you sell a horse as backed and ridden away, most sellers will ask to get on and ride, or at least see the horse ridden. If you sell the horse as un-backed, you can disguise a lot more. It is pretty unusual to have a completely un-backed seven year old- most people would have tackled this problem two years ago at least!

I think the horse will be much easier to sell if it's backed and ridden away, just to confirm there are no issues. However, you still might lose money on this. I guess it depends if OP's friend is desperate to sell, or is more worried about losing money (although in the long run you might spend more keeping the horse for another year).

If selling unbacked, I agree, LWVTB could be a good option- but equally it could be disastrous if the person you loaned the horse to messed up the backing and then gave it back.
 

Gloi

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I'd buy an unbacked 7yo if I knew its history and was sure it wasn't one that had been started and failed with. I bought an unbacked 10yo ex broodmare last summer and she is a lovely ride now.
 
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