industry experience vs training

[the watcher]

So, on behalf af a friend who is torn between concentrating on training and qualifications or applying to work for somebody at the top end of the industry.
The only downside of working for a professional is that she would be supporting them and therefore would not receive the regular lessons she could anticipate as an apprentice at a riding school, for example. However she would learn how to manage a barn full of horses at the top of their game and everything that goes with it. Her ambition long term is to be a competetive show jumper and trainer.

I would do this as a poll but am struggling with the current format of the board (techno dummy!)

As an employer would you prefer somebody with solid high level experience, or somebody with BHS/NVQ qualifications?

As somebody who has been through training or has relied on industry experience, which has worked best for you?

 

[celia]

I've only ever worked in livery yards and riding schools so can't comment on working for a top rider but IMO, experience is everything. You can have all the qualifications in the world but if you can't work in a professional and efficient way and do everything that is asked of you in a competant manner than you're going to struggle to get a decent job. I think the BHS exams are great (especially if you're aiming to become an instructor or yard manager/owner) but are usually looked at by employers as a bonus - not as a substitute for experience.

 

[nikkimariet]

I think qualifications and certificates will only get you so far....it's a case of 'you can talk the talk but can you walk the walk'. IMO an employer is looking for someone with experience, motivation, commitment, *applicable* knowledge and talent. Just because you passed an exam and have a piece of paper to prove it, does not further a persons natural ability and comprehension.

 

[the watcher]

Added to this, if she becomes well enough established through working with high level competitors, there is every possibility she may well be able to leapfrog a couple of BHS stages....

 

[native eventer]

I think it very much depends on what you want to do with horses. Experience is very much needed in this industry, however qualifications show you can do something or know about something in detail. Say if you want to be a yard owner/ manager I would say you need a mixture, as you need experience from the industry BUT you also need knowledge of the horse industry as a whole (which you sometimes lack if you just work in a few yards) and of business to make it a success! However if you want to be a top rider you need experience riding horses, as much as you can get... and I would then say qualifications aren't neccessary!! It also depends on how realisitc you are about your money, time and dedication!!

 

[Shilasdair]

I've been involved in both sides of the industry - in riding schools, event yards, studs and rehab yards, but also in the FE/HE side.

Working for an experienced competitor sounds ideal - the trainee will learn how to feed, produce, ride and manage horses to a high standard. The trainee will gradually get more rides themselves, being taken to shows/events with their mentor, where they can develop their riding skills under the watchful yet expert gaze of their boss. Add to this the introduction to a network of high-level and influential contacts, and the world is the trainee's oyster.

Except that it doesn't work like that.
The expert is too damn busy trying to make money/ride/compete and all they want is a cheap ****-shoveller. They will not be introducing said employee to anyone (far less helping them to set up in competition to them!), and they will be lucky if they get the hours of riding tuition promised (if they do it will be from the head girl or similar).

In reality, the industry is packed with would-be eventers/dressage riders/showjumpers and therapists. Only a few make it to the top - those whose parents can set them up with yard, stables etc, or those few really dedicated/talented/lucky people who can make it without a rich family.

I'd tell your trainee to go to uni, get a degree, get a good job and keep horses as a hobby.
S

 

[Maesfen]

If you had asked this question maybe 15 - 20 years ago, I think you might have had some (not all) different responses because training seemed so much more thorough then, but nowadays, time and again, some of those with latter day qualifications seem to be lacking in the common sense and aptitude department which are an absolute must on any professional yard. I think also, it would depend where the qualifications came from too; I would be more likely to respect those from somewhere like Talland or YRC than any of the colleges for example.

ETA that I'm strictly a hands on person and appreciate others of that ilk; it's alright spouting the talk but can you actually do what needs doing, that's the question for me.

 

[Crackerz]

Experience & 'can do' attitude! I have my BHS stages and NVQ 3 in horse care but my current employers couldn't care less about that.

 

[Shilasdair]

I earned my living in the equine industry for more than 20 years (yeah, I'm old ) but have to say that the equine industry offers jobs rather than careers.
And if you're only going to earn minimum wage, you may as well do that on a supermarket till, in the warmth with the other useful benefits, than spend your time getting qualifications only to have worse job conditions in the long run.
S

 

[Natch]

Are the two necessarily mutually exclusive? I'd say in our industry it is important to have both, especially if you want to progress beyond entry level jobs.

A job with a name (good bragging rights if nowt else) and doing something like the BSH stages in their spare time sounds like a decent enough plan to me.

This person doesn't want to have a life as well, do they??

 

[Natch]

Added to this, if she becomes well enough established through working with high level competitors, there is every possibility she may well be able to leapfrog a couple of BHS stages....

If by leapfrog you mean skip doing them and go straight in at a higher stage, research that carefully. I looked into that possibility for myself, and despite having studied and passed a syllabus which was based on the dratted things, and it looks like I still need to start my stages at stage 1. The BHS website has a good section on what you need to be able to skip each exam, so for example direct entry to stage 2 is here.

 

[the watcher]

Working for an experienced competitor sounds ideal - the trainee will learn how to feed, produce, ride and manage horses to a high standard. The trainee will gradually get more rides themselves, being taken to shows/events with their mentor, where they can develop their riding skills under the watchful yet expert gaze of their boss. Add to this the introduction to a network of high-level and influential contacts, and the world is the trainee's oyster.

Except that it doesn't work like that.
The expert is too damn busy trying to make money/ride/compete and all they want is a cheap ****-shoveller. They will not be introducing said employee to anyone (far less helping them to set up in competition to them!), and they will be lucky if they get the hours of riding tuition promised (if they do it will be from the head girl or similar).

In reality, the industry is packed with would-be eventers/dressage riders/showjumpers and therapists. Only a few make it to the top - those whose parents can set them up with yard, stables etc, or those few really dedicated/talented/lucky people who can make it without a rich family.

I'd tell your trainee to go to uni, get a degree, get a good job and keep horses as a hobby.
S

Shils, I told her that! We are singing from the same songsheet In fact she is completely qualified in an entirely different line of work. No riding tuition has been promised, in fact they have been very honest - the professional rider is the hub around which the rest of the team revolve, however there are a lot of other things to be learned and experienced at that level.

 

[Shilasdair]

Shils, I told her that! We are singing from the same songsheet In fact she is completely qualified in an entirely different line of work. No riding tuition has been promised, in fact they have been very honest - the professional rider is the hub around which the rest of the team revolve, however there are a lot of other things to be learned and experienced at that level.

I should have guessed you'd be saying the same things.
Although, I have to confess, I spent a lot of my twenties working in different yards - galloping along beaches at a trekking centre, fittening, schooling and training at an event yard etc - and had a great time as well as learning a lot.
I don't regret a moment - when you are young, money is less important.
S

 

[horsiegal_1987]

I should have guessed you'd be saying the same things.
Although, I have to confess, I spent a lot of my twenties working in different yards - galloping along beaches at a trekking centre, fittening, schooling and training at an event yard etc - and had a great time as well as learning a lot.
I don't regret a moment - when you are young, money is less important.
S

I agree with you guys also... I started working at a yard as a working pupil to gain my NVQs and loved it had a live in position and got a wage etc and it was at a highly recommended yard. I went to then get a job with a dressage rider which sounded fantastioc when i had the interveiw, even tho the wages were rubbish i thought it would gain me experience.... this was not the case, although i learnt alot i was on my own all the time never got to groom at competitions which is what i had wanted to do. Was treated like rubbish never got any holidays etc basically i was her skivvy!!

I was working a 56 hour week with 1 day off bringing in about 100 per week and was miserableI was really lucky tho and managed to get a very good job as a administrator which is very well paid... however alot of people i know havent been as lucky especially with jobs not coming up very often.... i would tell your friend to really think about it .... i think ultimatly she will do the right thing by her and what she wants to acheive but i certainly wish i had built a different career as the time and effort of getting my exams, they are just being wasted now.