infected hock ....someone help VET WANTS TO PTS

[morgan48]

my daughter in laws horse has a cut on his hock ,after 4 differant kinds of anti biotics nothing has improved .he is on very strong painkillers and is very lame basiclly she was told today that he might have to be pts as you can imagine she is besides herself .... she has asked for a scan to be done and x rays or a blood test or just something to identify wat the problem is ... but the vet refused and said if it was human they woiuld amputate his leg surely this cant be the end for this horse hes only 6 .. she asked for a referal to leahurst hospital but didnt get her any were can anyone help surely there must be more investigating that could be done . she isnt bothered about the cost or if he cant be ridden again as long as he is comfortable and not in pain ... any sugestions ???

 

[skint1]

I can imagine she's in shock hearing such bad news from the vet, I don't know what to advise, if cost is no object they may be giving your daughter-in-law what they feel is the best option for this horse in this case sadly. Maybe a second opinion from a different practice?

 

[spike123]

can you not get a different vets to come out for a second opinion and possible referral. Is there no way the joint can be flushed out?

 

[cptrayes]

Tell her to phone Leahurst direct. Derek Knottenbelt will speak to her. Her vet has no right to refuse a referral, that is completely unethical.

If the horse is lame due to a joint infection, it should have been flushed under a general anaesthetic long before four antibiotics had been allowed to fail. She may even have a case to sue this vet for malpractice at this rate.

When my own horse was severely lame on a fetlock joint for only hours, he was already booked into Leahurst for later that day in case the first lot of antibiotics failed. If the joint was clearly implicated in your d-i-l's horse, then it looks like his treatment so far has been seriously deficient

 

[L&M]

My lad got a hock infection after the vet injected him with steroids for spavin. He ended up in hospital on a drip for 9 days but they did manage to get on top of it.

Needless to say I would never have a joint injected again and said horse has remained sound since without need for injections.

As others have said, I would get another vet to give a second opinion, but unfortunately joint infections can be fatal - my lad was very lucky.

Good luck and have every sympathy for you.

 

[sunshine2020]

Hi, i'm just new here. But where I live where over run with horses and because there bought so cheap there value is low. This means that no one puts any value on the horse. That includes the vet. Please dont pts without a secound opinion.

 

[rockysmum]

I would try and ring Leahurst direct. If they wont take him get straight onto one of the specialist horse practices with operating theatres etc on site, you can ask for a second opinion yourself if your vet wont refer. I'm sure you have such practices near you, if not there is one at Halifax which isn't a million miles from you. Not sure what its called but they offered a second opinion on one of mine. If not Aireworth at Keighley have the facilities and again not so far away. As I said I would hit the phone as soon as the vets arrive in the morning.

Does she have transport, if so I taking the horse straight in.

 

[morgan48]

thankyou all 4 your replys ringing leahurst sounds promising we didnt think you could do that so thankyou for your valuable information.. no one has even suggested flushing the wound out... just cleaning it and antibiotics ... she requested a scan machine this morning to see if there was any other damage , poor girl waited all day to be told at tea time that it wasnt practical to do this at this time of day , waiting all weekend till monday isnt an option the poor girl is in a right state with worry .. i wish that some vets would realise that our horses are so precious to us.... and perhaps be a bit more sympathetic .... SOME VETS NOT ALL

 

[morgan48]

thankyou so much ...

 

[smiffyimp]

demand a referral, they cant refuse you. I had this when my dog got meningitis a second opinion and quick work work saved her life.

 

[A Beary Merry Christmas]

Tell her to phone Leahurst direct. Derek Knottenbelt will speak to her. Her vet has no right to refuse a referral, that is completely unethical.

If the horse is lame due to a joint infection, it should have been flushed under a general anaesthetic long before four antibiotics had been allowed to fail. She may even have a case to sue this vet for malpractice at this rate.

When my own horse was severely lame on a fetlock joint for only hours, he was already booked into Leahurst for later that day in case the first lot of antibiotics failed. If the joint was clearly implicated in your d-i-l's horse, then it looks like his treatment so far has been seriously deficient

^^THIS ^^ The Incompetent Cow! If you can't get him, get the yellow pages and get another EQUINE Vet, is she a small animal vet? One of them nearly killed my mare, the horse guy was on holiday and left this nincompoop in charge, he tubed her for choke and filled her lungs with dirty water. Get someone competent and don't wait. I'd be worried about Sceptacemia. God I'd use maggots before I'd put a six y/o down for infection. unless in blood or bone. Good luck, and sue her.

 

[Lgd]

Ring Leahurst first thing in the morning and get the horse there ASAP. Time is of the essence with these things and her vet is just fannying about.

ETA my mares half brother had infected hock and bone chips as a 6yo - he is still going strong aged 19yo

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

OP, I'd make absolutely certain of all the facts first. An injury to any joint is very serious if the joint is penetrated. A definitive guide to a penetrating injury is that the wound leaks pale, straw coloured liquid. This is synovial (joint) fluid and if you dip your finger in it and rub it between your fingertips, you would feel at once that it was greasy and slippery. The joint itself has no blood supply so infections take hold very fast and are incredibly difficult to resolve. There's a "window" of no more than a few hours in which to get a horse with a joint (or tendon sheath) injury to hospital for a GA to flush the wound. Even if the horse is operated on within this window, it may need a second or even third operation if the first is unsuccessful. With every subsequent flush, the likelihood of a successful outcome diminishes. Now it may be that your dil's horse was uninsured or that the window of opportunity had passed or some other reason. Once the situation has reached the point where the infection has spread to the bone then the prognosis is very very poor and you have to bear in mind that other issues can then intrude to muddy the waters. Firstly is the cost - even if insured, your insurers may not cover endless repeat flushings nor the monumental cost in both time and money that trying to heal this injury would bring. If uninsured, every GA is likely to cost at least £750 and herioc surgeries beyond that are likely to be even more expensive for an even more guarded outcome. Then there's the issue of the horse's quality of life if the pain can't be controlled and if the prognosis is so very poor. Then stir in the possiblilty of the horse being cross tied for months, laminitis possibly developing in the other foot, colics and god knows what else due to pain, depression, lack of movement. I'm so sorry to say but if your vets are recommending pts then I think you should listen, discuss alternatives and make the tough decision based on THE HORSE, not yourself. You may find yourselves with a bill running to £10,000 and STILL the pts option having to be used. Please, take great care.

 

[Circe]

I'd ask for or ring up and get a second opinion from a different vet, but also be aware that if the first vet has talked about pts, then the second may well say the same.
I tend to agree with Box_of_frogs, it does sound like the infection may be too advanced.
(do horses get gangrene??? )
If nothing else, the second opinion might help to clarify things, and help you to be sure you've done all you can.
Good luck
Kx

 

[JanetGeorge]

There's a "window" of no more than a few hours in which to get a horse with a joint (or tendon sheath) injury to hospital for a GA to flush the wound.

Why on earth would you need a GA to flush a hock?? We had a foal here who needed his hock flushed 5 times in a week (mare gave him an almighty kick which resulted in necrosis/infection). We just sedated him and then I pulled him down on my lap and held him (obviously sitting a full grown horse on your lap isn't practical - but an adult horse can be sedated much more heavily than is wise with a young foal!)

Certainly sounds like the vet has cocked up big-time - and obviously doesn't want horse to go for a 2nd opinion as her incompetence would be revealed!

Get horse to Leahurst now - tell them vet is recommending PTS and has refused a referral!

 

[millimoo]

Regards the vet referrals .... We use Aireworth for all general stuff (they are very good).
However the practice mentioned at Halifax is Hird & Partners... We use them directly for any lameness issues (Aireworth also refer to them)
Peter Schofield at Hird and Partners is their lameness specialist. They have all the latest facilities and equipment, and will have everything Leahurst can do, and if you're in the area (I can't tell on my iPhone) ring them today as an emergency.
Were in Ilkley and can get there within an hour on the lorry.

 

[millimoo]

Web address of Hird and Partners http://www.hirdandpartners.com/cms/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=77&Itemid=154

 

[quirky]

^^THIS ^^ The Incompetent Cow! If you can't get him, get the yellow pages and get another EQUINE Vet, is she a small animal vet? One of them nearly killed my mare, the horse guy was on holiday and left this nincompoop in charge, he tubed her for choke and filled her lungs with dirty water. Get someone competent and don't wait. I'd be worried about Sceptacemia. God I'd use maggots before I'd put a six y/o down for infection. unless in blood or bone. Good luck, and sue her.

This must rank as one of the worst posts I have seen on HHO

I would concentrate on getting your horse referred before I considered suing the vet.

Good luck with getting the infection shifted.

 

[racebuddy]

omg how sad i would def get another vet involved asap, a vet should never refuse i know as i had the same problem with my beloved sj i was told he would never jump again as had problem with back, he would be lucky to ridden again, he is now 10 and absoultley fine ridden sj, eventing just has regular phsio to keep him supple, fingers crossed for your mare, keep us updated.xx

 

[millimoo]

Sorry, just seen you previous posts. Looks like Leahurst will be nearer to you than Hird and Partners.

 

[foxy1]

OP, I'd make absolutely certain of all the facts first. An injury to any joint is very serious if the joint is penetrated. A definitive guide to a penetrating injury is that the wound leaks pale, straw coloured liquid. This is synovial (joint) fluid and if you dip your finger in it and rub it between your fingertips, you would feel at once that it was greasy and slippery. The joint itself has no blood supply so infections take hold very fast and are incredibly difficult to resolve. There's a "window" of no more than a few hours in which to get a horse with a joint (or tendon sheath) injury to hospital for a GA to flush the wound. Even if the horse is operated on within this window, it may need a second or even third operation if the first is unsuccessful. With every subsequent flush, the likelihood of a successful outcome diminishes. Now it may be that your dil's horse was uninsured or that the window of opportunity had passed or some other reason. Once the situation has reached the point where the infection has spread to the bone then the prognosis is very very poor and you have to bear in mind that other issues can then intrude to muddy the waters. Firstly is the cost - even if insured, your insurers may not cover endless repeat flushings nor the monumental cost in both time and money that trying to heal this injury would bring. If uninsured, every GA is likely to cost at least £750 and herioc surgeries beyond that are likely to be even more expensive for an even more guarded outcome. Then there's the issue of the horse's quality of life if the pain can't be controlled and if the prognosis is so very poor. Then stir in the possiblilty of the horse being cross tied for months, laminitis possibly developing in the other foot, colics and god knows what else due to pain, depression, lack of movement. I'm so sorry to say but if your vets are recommending pts then I think you should listen, discuss alternatives and make the tough decision based on THE HORSE, not yourself. You may find yourselves with a bill running to £10,000 and STILL the pts option having to be used. Please, take great care.

100% agree. You are entitled to a second opinion but things may have gone too far already. Sometimes the hardest, bravest and kindest thing is to let them go.

 

[Carefreegirl]

Please please please get a 2nd opinion. 5 years ago to the day literally I found my horse in the field on 3 legs with her o/h hock the size of a football. Had to take the trailer down the field to get her up to the yard and it took the vet to sedate her and 5 of us to get her in the trailer as totally non bearing, she actually prefered to fall over. Vet told me to expect te worse as expected a smashed up hock. Got her to the vets (luckily a fully equipped hospital) and on xraying there wasn't a single injury. Due to this she was put n a stable over the weekend and carefully monitored. She got worse on the Sunday and it turns out she had blood poisoning due to a foreign body so her hock was flushed out on the Monday morning first thing. She made immediate progress and was allowed home a week later. We had a little wobble a couple of weeks later so rushed her back in but found nothing and totally fine later on that day. The only sign of the op now is that her hock is ever so slightly larger but if you didn't know you wouldn't notice. We never found an entry wound or what caused the infection but she's been 100% fine since. Its your horse, you pay the bills so start kicking up a fuss. Good luck and keep us posted !

 

[Miss L Toe]

I think you have had a lot of good advice here, I have a lot of concerns, and as always my main concern is for the horse, if it is in a bad way and nothing can be done then it should probably be put down.
A young person who owns her own horse has little experience of "things that can't be fixed" so you should be careful of raising false hopes and "blaming" someone else , in this case, the vet.
You are the responsible adult, so really the well-being of the horse is pretty much your responsibility, you both need to have a consultation with the vet, there may be a senior partner who can sit in with you all.
In the meantime get the horse to a referral hospital, preferably via your current vet practice, please try to avoid words like malpractice!
In my more recent experience vets often do not suggest the PTS option early enough, but I am NOT suggesting he is right, I have no knowledge of your horse and all that has gone before or its future, but if it is in pain then something has to be done, and you have to accept the PTS is one option on the agenda. There is no use prolonging things if the outcome is going to be the same. I hope this does not come across as savage or heartless, but animals have no concept of the future in the way we humans do, and we are responsible for their every happiness, and in some cases, their sadness.

 

[millimoo]

Spot in MrsD123

 

[Maesfen]

Have to agree with Mrs D123 and Box of Frogs completely. Act today, don't wait for Monday.

 

[foxy1]

I think you have had a lot of good advice here, I have a lot of concerns, and as always my main concern is for the horse, if it is in a bad way and nothing can be done then it should probably be put down.
A young person who owns her own horse has little experience of "things that can't be fixed" so you should be careful of raising false hopes and "blaming" someone else , in this case, the vet.
You are the responsible adult, so really the well-being of the horse is pretty much your responsibility, you both need to have a consultation with the vet, there may be a senior partner who can sit in with you all.
In the meantime get the horse to a referral hospital, preferably via your current vet practice, please try to avoid words like malpractice!
In my more recent experience vets often do not suggest the PTS option early enough, but I am NOT suggesting he is right, I have no knowledge of your horse and all that has gone before or its future, but if it is in pain then something has to be done, and you have to accept the PTS is one option on the agenda. There is no use prolonging things if the outcome is going to be the same. I hope this does not come across as savage or heartless, but animals have no concept of the future in the way we humans do, and we are responsible for their every happiness, and in some cases, their sadness.

This is excellent advice, thoughtful post.

 

[SusieT]

Several points:
!) To properly flush a joint, you normally do it under GA to enable you to look around the joint and remove any other damage and really properly flush it.
2)The horse may be past saving, if it has had 4 lots of antibiotics that joint is going to be very damaged with all the infection. If he is very lame on painkillers he may not be fit to travel which may be why they are refusing referral. Why was he not referred eariler? Xrays and scans and blood tests are not going to be useful really.
HOWEVER if you are willing to spend thousands/are insured and want to give the horse a chance, you need to call your vet or another vet out, get them to medicate the horse sufficiently with painkillers so that he is fit to travel and get him referred to leahurst NOW. The longer you wait the more his prognosis decreased.They may well when you get there advise PTS but at least you will have tried.

 

[Maesfen]

Certainly sounds like the vet has cocked up big-time - and obviously doesn't want horse to go for a 2nd opinion as her incompetence would be revealed!

Get horse to Leahurst now - tell them vet is recommending PTS and has refused a referral!

Have just spoken to my vet who happens to work at Leahurst and he says you do have to be referred to Leahurst so can't just take him but no vet should refuse to refer if the owner wishes it. If your vet refuses then get a second opinion straight away and tell them right away you want a referral because your own vet is refusing.

Of course, TBF, this vet might have it spot on and is only trying to avoid you paying more than you need when the answer will be exactly as she's said - on the other hand, she could just be useless at her job and trying not to bring it to attention but she has no right to not refer you if that's what you wish. Do remember though that it will cost a lot of money (not always a consideration for some but it is for most of us even with insurance) even to step foot through the Leahurst door but what price peace of mind to know you have the right answers, that's the thing to think about.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

my daughter in laws horse has a cut on his hock ,after 4 differant kinds of anti biotics nothing has improved .he is on very strong painkillers and is very lame basiclly she was told today that he might have to be pts as you can imagine she is besides herself .... she has asked for a scan to be done and x rays or a blood test or just something to identify wat the problem is ... but the vet refused and said if it was human they woiuld amputate his leg surely this cant be the end for this horse hes only 6 .. she asked for a referal to leahurst hospital but didnt get her any were can anyone help surely there must be more investigating that could be done . she isnt bothered about the cost or if he cant be ridden again as long as he is comfortable and not in pain ... any sugestions ???

get 2nd opinion vet cant refuse you change your vet . Speek to glasgow vets they give animals a second chance when vets give up. \vets need to be realistic and truthful to owners but still helpfull not refusing u point blank.

which area are u ?? give those vets meantioned above ive seen and heard horses come back from the brink

my friends horse got kicked on hock and was leaking joint fluid,, she made it, my mare also kicked on hock shatered splint bone she made it.

My mare on laminitis 4 months now , my vets are simpathetic encouraging and willing to fight for her. I would certaily change vets if thats their attitude no matter what outcome is they should explain why they dont rec surgery not just say they wont do it.

 

[monikirk]

Oh dear I'm so sorry. Presently my horse is on his 6th course of AB's. He had a kick at the beginning of sept. He was scanned straight away and joint tapped at the surgery. Luckily joint is fine but has had recurrent infections. Joint scanned again to recheck for bone chip all clear. Just finished 10days of IM AB's and on another 10 days of a liquid AB which will finish on Monday. Will be checking temp x2 daily - vet again on Wed so hope he stays sound. Vet got second opinion from Rosdales at Newmarket who agree with treatment plan. Only prob is limited turnout which is not always as quiet as it should be.
Do get second opinion there's some excellent advice on this thread.