Installing post and rail fencing query

[Oliver12]

I've had a couple of quotes from fencing contractors to install post and rail fencing in my paddock using tractor/auger.

A local builder has also given me a quote which is considerably cheaper but would be digging the posts in manually and securing with road stone. I expressed concern that they wouldn't be as sturdy but he assures me they will.

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Oliver12]

Sorry, don't know how I managed to post this twice!

 

[POLLDARK]

You need to make sure the posts (where they are below ground) are protected as the treatment to stop rot is not as effective as it once was ( a component of it was removed for H&S I think) We had new post & rail put up shortly after the wood treatment was altered & the posts in the ground rotted after a few years. Massive waste of money as it needs replacing now.

 

[Polos Mum]

TBH I'd be amazed if doing it manually and adding stone was cheaper - he must be cutting corners in some other way.
When we had ours done they had the tractor with post knocker, 4x4 with trailer and 2 guys nailing on rails - so lots of people but c.1000 meters took them four short days (three rail) Tractor knocked in post moved on (say 3/4 mins by the time they'd measured and the guy on the ground guided the post in, knocked in post and moved on. Other guy passed timber from the trailer to both tractor guys and rail guys.

There is absoutely no way a farmer with a shovel could dig a hole, level up the post by hand (spirit level) fill in with stone then mud in 3/4 mins!!

It was about £8 a meter but looks as perfect now as it did 5 years ago without any maintenance at all.

If you disturb the ground around the post (by digging) basic physics will tell you it won't be as stable as ground that hasn't been disturbed.

 

[Oliver12]

Thanks for your replies.

Polldark - I asked all the contractors to quote using pressure creosoted fencing as the previous fencing has already rotted after only eight years.

Polos Mum - I agree with you. Although I only need about 150 metres of fencing I still think a builder plus labourer will be struggling.

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Builder is wrong, get the fencers in ) also cos posts don't last like they did, make sure the corner strainers are telegraph pole sized and solid as a rock ; that way it is relatively easy and cheap to replace the in between posts.

 

[Spring Feather]

Use the guy with the auger. An auger will not damage the stability of the surrounding earth structure whereas the man digging by hand will.

 

[Tickles]

If it is only a short fence required it could be that the manual way is cheaper because of the overheads of getting in a tractor etc are the same if you need loads or just a little? Plus may take more people who can't be paid for less than half a day etc, etc?

Couldn't comment on relative quality - just a thought on the economics!

 

[Jools2345]

I've had a couple of quotes from fencing contractors to install post and rail fencing in my paddock using tractor/auger.

A local builder has also given me a quote which is considerably cheaper but would be digging the posts in manually and securing with road stone. I expressed concern that they wouldn't be as sturdy but he assures me they will.

Any advice much appreciated.

Thanks.

i think the answer to your question is that he is a builder not a fencer-the post will not be as stable

 

[SuperH]

My husband is a dairy farmer and he does all his fencing by hand. Cows are very good at rubbing posts and they don't have any trouble with any posts moving so I wouldn't be too worried that doing it by hand would be an inferior job. It is hard work doing it by hand, the only reason he does this is cost related, if we ever made any money a post knocker or auger would be high up on his shopping list!

My dad always puts fences up using an auger. His fences are also good and it is quicker to do. However if the ground is wet this would make a lot more mess than going in on foot.

Suggest you go and look at some fencing that each person has done, then decide.

 

[pixie]

We just use our JCB and it takes seconds. One person holds the post in place whilst the other gently lowers the JCB bucket, pushing the post into the ground.
I think it would take ages digging in and filling each post.

 

[Oliver12]

SuperH - that's very interesting, thanks.

My husband is an engineer and thinks that because the soil is clay, then digging by hand and using road stone would probably make it more secure as clay tends to move around a lot when wet.


Thanks for all the replies - very helpful.

 

[1stclassalan]

I run a company that does estate fencing as one of its services ( so pm for quotes!!! No I jest read on to find out why) and it is very much a case of horses for courses.

Each of the offering above has a least one good point but NONE of them are 100% - Let's begin - what do you want? Just a fence? Or a fence that looks good - upright when you look at each post and also along the length of the rails?

In my experience, none of the post drivers will position a post 100% accurately - it's obvious, the stonier the soil the more likely it will be the post will hit one on the way down and either be blunted or shy away from true. And this, if the fixers can be bothered to position the tractor correctly in the first place! All fences without prepared holes are prone to movement in subsequent years - again, not surprising as there's nothing holding them except the surrounding soil.

We build fences not just to last but usually ones that are intended to be more than purely functional ( so think expensive - I like that!) We use a mini digger fitted with an auger to bore the post holes and always hand finish them because soil always falls back in from the auger. The rails are then fixed and the whole thing temporarily strutted before each post in concreted in - we use stress graded vacuum treated timber and dip the ends in more preservative before placement. On some fences - all the posts are fixed first as we often net or chainlink under the rails. Some of my fences are forty years old and still standing - never had one fall down. We do NOT compete on price alone!

My advice:- decide what you want, write out the exact specification - give that to each person you ask for a price and then go and see a couple of jobs they've done.

 

[indie999]

Did post on the other one but cement posts in will help prevent rotting.

 

[jackessex]

Hi I agree with Alan defo need to cement in, my other half did all my 5 acres (he's a fencer)mines really clay soil and its been done nearly 6 yrs and hasn't moved

 

[Mike007]

DO NOT try to cement the posts in. It increases the rate at which they will rot .And as has been already correctly pointed out.The modern pressure treatement (unless its pressure treated creosote)is as much use as a chocolate teaspoon.Also once your post has rotted you will be left with a lump of concrete in the ground when you want to put in a replacement.Tammping the post in with roadstone is a much better method

 

[weebarney]

What can be put on to stop them rotting or is it just a fact of life now?

 

[Spring Feather]

DO NOT try to cement the posts in. It increases the rate at which they will rot .And as has been already correctly pointed out.The modern pressure treatement (unless its pressure treated creosote)is as much use as a chocolate teaspoon.Also once your post has rotted you will be left with a lump of concrete in the ground when you want to put in a replacement.Tammping the post in with roadstone is a much better method

I have to say I was a bit surprised that anyone suggested concreting the posts in but then I wondered if it was just because I live in a country where it's boiling through the summer and freezing in the winter and maybe that sped up the rotting process, but over here not even a dope on a rope would allow concrete and wood to touch because the wood rots in no time due to concrete being porous. ETA we have a fencing company and we use augers to dig the holes and then stones are placed in the bottom of the hole and then the hole is filled back in with post in place.

 

[Mike007]

What can be put on to stop them rotting or is it just a fact of life now?

Posts always rot first ,at ground level. There is a form of plastic sleeve you can have on your post to prevent this . The company who do all the pressure treatment for my sawmill sell this now because they know the treatment is almost useless.