Instinct

[Tinkerbee]

having a kerfuffle with an anti and need some help...

how much of the hounds behaviour is instinct|? im aware there is some training but sure;y theres lots of instinct too, selective breeding and such
ive never trained my terriers but they are excelleant hunters
any links would be appreciated and your opinions. cheers

 

[Paint it Lucky]

I know hyenas and other predators will hunt jackels in the wild! That probably is irrelevant but hounds are bigger than foxes so maybe they have an instinct to chase them to stop competition for their food?

 

[Mid]

A hound mightn't realise he's chasing a fox - If he's given a scent, he'll probably stick to the one scent through training, but follow simply because of basic instinct, hunting in a pack surely recalls otherwise buried behaviour... Perhaps, underneath common sense, he thinks he's hunting food?


I'm an anti tho

 

[k9h]

It is ALL totally instinct. They pups go out with the older hounds & learn the finer details from them but they are aware of what they have to do. In the proper days of hunting we had to tell them NO for going after rabbits where as now we are telling them thats it's O.K. Well we don't have to tell them it's O.K. we just let them do it as that is legal!
It is much more heart rendering telling them when they want to go on a fox. As all of a sudden we are telling them that it is wrong when that is all they have ever done. They don't understand that it is wrong. That I find cruel to the hounds.

 

[severnmiles]

Hunting is completely their instinct, walk a hound puppy and it won't be long before the're disappearing off on the nearest scent. The training bit is teaching it commands, simple things like to stay with the pack at meets, return to certain blows and hunt more as a pack (although that can be quite natural anyway).

 

[severnmiles]

Perhaps, underneath common sense, he thinks he's hunting food?

I disagree with this, they know its not food, just like when I had problems with my eldest Inuit and chickens -she's fine with them now , she didn't want to eat them, just chase them and kill them, but all of them, it was great fun to her!

 

[endymion]

I'm an anti and I think a lot of dog behaviour is instinct.

However, I think that instinct can be utilised in different ways other than hunting if the dog is with you from a pup.

I have two terriers who show no desire to hunt other than chasing the gulls at the beach. I'm pretty sure this is because we haven't honed their instincts to hunt, instead satisfying their needs with other games. For example, my little one loves it when I bury his ball in the sand at the beach so he can dig a hole, stick his head in and pull it out. Neither him (Jack russell terrier) or the old one (Cairn cross Jack Russell) have ever killed anything or ever came close to and they have had ample opportunities.

I have heard stories of fox hounds taken from pups that live and act as house dogs. I will try and find a link if you want.

 

[severnmiles]

My inuits would slaughter a field of sheep as a pack given half the chance, I have never egged them on to do that, yet you say it is not instinct for a dog to hunt?

 

[Sidesaddle]

I would say it is instinct for lots of animals to hunt, not just dogs. To go slightly off topic, though it is related, my mum has always had cats and one of them was a real hunter - forever bringing in rabbits, squirrels, voles, shrews, birds etc etc. Now she had never trained the cat to do it. It did it by instinct.

 

[endymion]

No I said it IS instinct but that instinct can be harnessed in different ways.

Next time I'm home I'll make and post a vid of my terriers in the dunes near my house. They are crawling with rabbits and foxes yet my two don't pay any attention because all they are interested in is playing with their toys. A zillion rabbits could hop past my JTR and he wouldn't notice if someone was holding his tennis ball in front of him.

He came from a farm where both parents were ratters so if he came across any rodents maybe it would be a different story but there's no rats around my house and we don't have any hamsters!

 

[severnmiles]

But then maybe he's a 'freak' (not meant insultingly), occasionally you will get a hound who won't hunt.

 

[endymion]

I dunno, the other one doesn't either. Although he likes eating Yorkshire terriers, which is a bit worrying.

I think dogs do have a hunting instinct but I don't think they always act on it if they are not in the right situation or if their instinct is satisfied in some other way.

I don't blame any animal for acting according to it's nature.

 

[suestowford]

I would think that instinct is stronger in some dogs/hounds than in others. Maybe this is why Endymion's terriers don't kill things, they maybe have a less strong instinctive drive to do so.

For instance: next door to me live two collies. One is a useless sheepdog, she has been tried for years and all she wants to do is play with sticks. The other is a new dog, he came a couple of months ago as a poor frightened rescue yet recently has been allowed to try his paw at a bit of sheepdogging. He has a need to herd so I would say he has a strong instinctive drive to do this.

 

[endymion]

Yeah, I'd agree with you there.

 

[soggy]

I think dogs do have a hunting instinct but I don't think they always act on it if they are not in the right situation or if their instinct is satisfied in some other way.

Or they are brain dead and useless like their owners.

 

[endymion]

Whats that SSB? I can't hear you......

This ignore thingy is the business, hehehe :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[severnmiles]

Whats that SSB? I can't hear you......

This ignore thingy is the business, hehehe :grin: :grin: :grin:

I'm too nosey to ever ignore anyone :-(

 

[endymion]

I'm still not talking to you cos you called my dog a freak :grin:

 

[Clodagh]

My hound puppies seem to be instinctive hunters of tea towels and mop heads. Theres no hope for them...sigh...

 

[Sidesaddle]

I'm still not talking to you cos you called my dog a freak :grin:

Oh dear, Endy! What with ignoring some users and not talking to others who will you chat with? Just yourself? At least you'll get the right answers that way, my dear!

 

[severnmiles]

I'm still not talking to you cos you called my dog a freak :grin:

Oh you know what I meant...in a good way...

 

[soggy]

Whats that SSB? I can't hear you......

This ignore thingy is the business, hehehe :grin: :grin: :grin:

But that's par for the course for an anti. IMO

They always have refused to accept the truth.

 

[endymion]

Outside of this forum most people I know are anti-hunt so I always get the right answers from them.

Anyway, most of the anti's seem to have left the HHO building and left me on my lonesome. Not to worries, I am great company, even to myself

 

[severnmiles]

Outside of this forum most people I know are anti-hunt so I always get the right answers from them.

Anyway, most of the anti's seem to have left the HHO building and left me on my lonesome. Not to worries, I am great company, even to myself

Thats cos they quit whilst they were behind...you keep coming back for more.. :grin: I hope you don't leave, we'll have nobody to debate with :-(

 

[Sidesaddle]

I hope you don't leave as well. You cheer me up no end!

 

[endymion]

No chance of that, Im too stubborn!

Anyway, think you might be right about the dog. He was in the park this morning with me ma and as they were passing a little toddler with his mum, my dog jumped up and grabbed the kid's chocolate out his hand and sprinted off with it leaving the poor lad in tears.

So maybe he can't catch a rabbit but he is a stealthy hunter of Magic Stars, lol!

 

[suestowford]

Ha ha! I experienced a similar incident involving a terrier, a picnic and a Battenburg cake, many years ago now. Although it was our (picnic party's) cake we did find it funny!

 

[severnmiles]

Ha ha! I experienced a similar incident involving a terrier, a picnic and a Battenburg cake, many years ago now. Although it was our (picnic party's) cake we did find it funny!

Haha. Little terrors! Mums JRT nicked a rusk out of my brothers 2y.o, they are fun dogs with selective hearing!

So there Endy, he does hunt...just chocolate and not rats :smirk: