Instructors for specific breeds/ways of going

[emfen1305]

Do you think its better to have an instructor that understands the type of horse you are riding and their weaknesses/strengths or does it not really matter? I ask because I am now looking for my 3rd instructor in a year because my previous ones don't seem to understand that I have a 15hh tank built to go in straight lines and not a warmblood! I feel like he is being compared to other horses and it's not fair on him, I feel like I am being told to ride a different horse to the one that is in front of me. I am not really sure what I need to be looking for in an instructor but wondered whether it was worth finding people who are out competing cobs at dressage who also teach as they may have a better understanding. I know not all cobs are the same (nor are any horses) but wondered if this would be a better starting point than my current approach!

 

[milliepops]

I don't think you need a specialist, I think you need someone with great depth of experience and an open mind. I say that because not all cobs are the same, not all TBs are the same and so on

I know my trainer has a few welshies on his books, he was equally good with the Iberian and the part WBs that I took there. I'm pretty sure though, that most people go there with WBs. It doesn't matter, because good training is good training.

what kinds of things are you finding to be the problem? and remind me whereabouts are you because maybe someone will be local and have some good suggestions for you to follow up

 

[catkin]

as above.

You do need someone who 'gets' your horse and who likes him, after all there are three personalities involved in any training!
Ask loads of questions about what various exercises are aiming to do and be honest about what you want out of a lesson. If you are uncomfortable with anything then say so.
With any new instructor it does take some time to get to know one another.

 

[emfen1305]

I think the experience and open mind is the part I am struggling with, I feel like I am second guessing what I am being told, not because I think I know better, but because I don't see the improvement or change in way of going, even just a little bit, so then I just get told to carry on doing what I am doing and accept that he will always go like this. I like to ask lots of questions, I do a tonne of homework, lots of reading etc and always feel like I am being met with an attitude of "why did you a buy a cob then?"

My aims for this year are to improve at intro and move up to prelim (all unaff and online). I am currently scoring between 65-70% in my intros (last 3 have been 65%, 68% and 70%) and all comments relating to suppleness over the back (which I think is a standard comment for intro). I get 7s for rider position and rhythm but 6 or 6.5 for suppleness and contact and always comments about bend on my circles which is reflected at home as I do struggle to bend him round my left leg (wonky hip and weak leg) and I struggle to maintain consistent contact with my hands and to keep him between leg and hand. I think if I could improve this then I would be able to start getting him to connect. I know it doesn't seem much to just want to compete at intro but I just want to school my horse correctly and make sure he is nice and straight and strong to keep him sound. I am based in South Manchester, I have seen some dressage riders post adverts on Facebook but worried they will think I am silly with my ambitions for prelim on my little cob when they are training at PSG!

 

[milliepops]

Ok firstly your aims are 100% realistic.
Secondly you absolutely must not put yourself down, it might well be one of those pro riders that you need,to see beyond the first-glance limitations of training a cob body and see the potential that he has.

How stupid do you think I felt taking kira the first time to a GP level trainer 😂 she couldn't canter and spent the first 30 mins napping 😏 but he saw what she could be regardless of her breeding and her stumpy legs, and now we're actually talking about getting to grand prix, we need a lot of luck and a fair wind but its mad!

It's the thing I feel most passionate about, never think you aren't good enough for a top trainer, sometimes people find the right training for them at a lower level but sometimes its exactly what you need to push through a blockage and make progress.

@AlexHyde is this a location you are familiar with?

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I was north Manchester but if you have transport, I think Di Breeze is a miracle worker for my equine alternatives!

She teaches all levels, all abilities and is super positive and has every tool in the box for those horses who haven’t read the warmblood manual 😉. She does clinics in Cheshire and North Wales.

Never feel intimidated by the level your trainer is working at, as it should give them so much more experience.

 

[Orangehorse]

I used to have lessons with an instructor and one of the best horses was a cob. He moved very well and could do all the work that the other horses were doing, but both the rider and instructor agreed that he had a limit which he had nearly reached. The instructor was very experienced with the Iberian horses, so was used to the compact conformation and didn't have a fixed idea of what a horse should look like but found out what the horse could do.

There is a book called "Cobs Can" which you might find helpful.

It is a bit of a personal hobbyhorse of mine that I think there are too many riding instructors who don't have enough all round experience in the horse world, and only ever see the "dressage type" or eventers and never come across an arab, or a native pony or even a cob and never experience different disciplines to find out what riding a polo pony is like and why some horses are bred and trained in a certain way.

 

[Kat]

I think that the really good people absolutely can see beyond the "type" of horse and train the horse in front of them correctly. The prejudice and preconceptions often come from people who don't have the knowledge and understanding to train a horse that isn't "a natural" to be the very best it can be.

I have had lessons with some really decent people on some very average horses and found it beneficial.

I have had lessons with less qualified and less experienced people who say things like "it's a cob what do you expect" or "it's a cob it's never going to get to GP". Never heard that from the really well qualified people.

If you aren't sure watch some of the all stars academy on horse and country and see how much love Pammy Hutton gives some of the less standard horses. There have been a couple of episodes where she has fallen for a little cob after a ride, absolutely not dismissive of them.

Try some lessons and clinics with people you admire, and aspire to be like. Have fun and report back! Before you know it you'll be setting your sights at Novice rather than prelim!

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think the best trainers can see the potential in any horse and any rider and bring it out of them.

I used to have lessons on my Anglo Arab with the author of "Cobs Can"... badly put together Anglo Arabs can too.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think you just haven't found the right person your ambitions are totally realistic I think your being very hard on yourself, I have lessons with a dressage rider who has trained horses up to psg, I have Arabs there not typically dressage horses they have done ridden showing and we did ok, but he has totally transformed both of my horses and my riding, he rides and competes a variety of horses and does a great job and he will teach any level of rider or horse, good instructors are out there just keep looking and hopefully someone can recommend somebody.

 

[daydreamer]

hi,

not directly related to your comments but I just bought a book called 55 corrective exercises for horses. It has some really interesting exercises, ridden and groundwork, poles and not, many of which I've not seen before. It is excellent and tells you which exercises will help with specific issues like lack of suppleness etc. It may help you to help your cob use his body differently and is another way to try and get some improvements and changes.

 

[Red-1]

I have found that some trainers merely reproduce what they have been taught and never get the level of understanding where they can adapt what they know to new situations. Yet more trainers could do more adaptation, but it is easier to reproduce a lesson than be innovative, if you are a bit stale.

I have 'sacked' trainers in the past who sit drinking coffee in the corner, I simply don't feel they are fully involved.

When you find the correct trainer you will know.

I have just started training with a new coach. In fact, it is someone who taught me when she was still a teen, 23 years ago. I just had a gut feeling that she would be able to help me, and set out to track her down, happily finding her in exactly the same place as she was all those years ago. It was far enough away that we had to go for an overnight stay, but before the end of the first lesson I was asking if I could go back every month. It was as mind blowing as I thought it might be, and more. Right down to a coaching app so she can keep in touch the rest of the month. A far cry from those who laconically give the odd instruction from under a pile of blankets in the corner!

 

[LegOn]

I think you have been unlucky to get trainers who teach to method regardless of the horse that is infront of them.

Some instructors feel that a formula of do A, to get to B, to make C happen kinda approach will work for all horses and all riders.

You need an instructor who teaches the horse and rider that is in front of them, and who knows if you want to get a certain result there are many paths and it sometimes can be trail and error but who can adapt their method to suit what is going on during the lesson - and that sometimes you just have to ride the horse on the day - you might be feeling off or the horse might be feeling fresh or lazy and you just have to go with what is going on!

I think good instructors like this are worth their weight and can get some much more out of a horse and rider if the know how to read them & help them along no matter if its a 16hh warmblood or a 14.2 Connie!

 

[emfen1305]

Thanks all for your kind words - my confidence has been knocked slightly after my instructor laughed when I said I got 70% in my dressage and then I ended up convincing myself I didn't deserve it. Same instructor completely disregarded me in a jumping clinic because she liked my friends speedy arab and my confidence is still a bit fragile, so i was just told to practice over a cross pole by myself in the corner and I was made to feel like a hindrance to everyone else despite there only being 3 of us and we are all friends and they didn't mind staying low and working on technique so it was at that point I thought need to start the hunt again!

I've got the cobs can book @Orangehorse and I'll take a look at the 55 exercises one @daydreamer , I am fairly confident with the groundwork but could just benefit from some help when I ride because I think something is missing - I am improving very slowly but there's certain things (left bend, canter in general!) that I seem to have hit a wall with. I think I'll try and search for some instructors based up here, if anyone else has ideas for NW based dressage trainers I am open to suggestions. @AlexHyde I don't have my own transport but I will keep a look out for the clinics! I am just looking for someone who is sympathetic and won't rule us out when they see us, I am like a sponge when it comes to horses and learning so I just need someone who is equally as passionate about teaching as I am about learning!

 

[ihatework]

There are a lot of really rubbish trainers out there!

The very best ones IMO train because they like to find out how individual horses ‘tick’ and take pleasure from their improvement, irrespective of their type. These trainers also need to be able to tap into the person on top and present information in a way they understand and motivate and give the rider self belief.

It’s actually quite difficult to find the right package but I have to say the trainer that Millipops refers to is the one who works for me too.

 

[milliepops]

You need to sack your current instructor I think! you need someone who *wants* to see you succeed, if you report back a good result they should be pleased for you. Grrrrr this makes me so mad on your behalf.

My lessons are the highlight of my week, I can't wait to go back each time because I totally trust my trainer and I know he is with us every step of the way. That's how it should feel

maybe put a post on the BD FB page or on the regional boards on here and see if anyone has some other recommendations. You could also check out the BD southwest regional page, non members can join the training that they put on (though it can be quite pricey, it's a good way to try out different trainers with no commitment).

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Thanks all for your kind words - my confidence has been knocked slightly after my instructor laughed when I said I got 70% in my dressage and then I ended up convincing myself I didn't deserve it. Same instructor completely disregarded me in a jumping clinic because she liked my friends speedy arab and my confidence is still a bit fragile, so i was just told to practice over a cross pole by myself in the corner and I was made to feel like a hindrance to everyone else despite there only being 3 of us and we are all friends and they didn't mind staying low and working on technique so it was at that point I thought need to start the hunt again!

I've got the cobs can book @Orangehorse and I'll take a look at the 55 exercises one @daydreamer , I am fairly confident with the groundwork but could just benefit from some help when I ride because I think something is missing - I am improving very slowly but there's certain things (left bend, canter in general!) that I seem to have hit a wall with. I think I'll try and search for some instructors based up here, if anyone else has ideas for NW based dressage trainers I am open to suggestions. @AlexHyde I don't have my own transport but I will keep a look out for the clinics! I am just looking for someone who is sympathetic and won't rule us out when they see us, I am like a sponge when it comes to horses and learning so I just need someone who is equally as passionate about teaching as I am about learning!

Finding someone who can encourage you is really key I think to learning, I know Di goes to Whitegate Farm, Radfords, Acton Hall and Foxes I think, but sometimes it is trial and error to find the perfect fit for you. Remember you are paying them for their services, if they ignore, belittle or don't do a good job of teaching you then they are not right for you!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I agree with those who say that you have had the misfortune to find some poor/lazy trainers so far but to approach the problem from a different angle, have you had physio input yourself for your weaker side? that might help you, as could lessons on a mechanical horse so that you can work on your position. I know of one in Ashton -u-Lyme, which sometimes has a qualified equine/human physio doing sessions on it, if that's not too far away from you.


ETA, I hope you asked for your money back from the jumping 'lesson'

 

[SEL]

If you aren't sure watch some of the all stars academy on horse and country and see how much love Pammy Hutton gives some of the less standard horses. There have been a couple of episodes where she has fallen for a little cob after a ride, absolutely not dismissive of them.

I'd never watched All Stars until this series and was really impressed by the fact she got on that gorgeous cob to see what it felt like to her. I caught her follow up lesson with that owners / horse combination last week and was again impressed by how she worked with what she had in front of her. I also made a note never to let a thick tail grow too long!

OP - I've been in your shoes where people haven't understood my horse and have tried to give us the lesson they had planned rather than what was appropriate for the combination in front of them. You will find the right instructor, but it may take time. I get very inspired when I see MP on a little welsh D aiming for GP, as well as Alex and her 2 carriage horses (my 2 are cart horses - nothing as glamorous as a carriage for them!!) - who needs a flashy warmblood to do dressage after all

 

[milliepops]

Remember you are paying them for their services, if they ignore, belittle or don't do a good job of teaching you then they are not right for you!

^^this
it's really hard sometimes because you feel like they are the expert and therefore they must be right ... but it's such a personal and complex thing even if they aren't doing it on purpose, anyone who makes you feel rubbish just isn't the right person.

I have ended things with a good few trainers - people who made me feel useless (no way you can progress if your confidence is on the floor), people who made me feel nervous (same problem!), people who were too rough on the horse (riding is a privilege IMO and I can't abide people who see the horse as a tool first and foremost), people who weren't ambitious for me and my horse (never put a limit on yourself because who knows what you could achieve with the right help).

I'd also suggest trying to go and watch some sessions or clinics if you can because that's a free (or cheap) way to assess whether you think you like the style of someone's teaching.

 

[bubsqueaks]

We too have a cracking coblet we are eventing, what has worked for us if having an Instructor who also riders her as well so she totally gets the feel of her & can translate that perfectly to my daughter - its been very helpful indeed.

 

[merlinsquest]

70% is a great score! I agree with the others, you have found some poor trainers, they should be on your team & helping you though the highs & lows. My coach has seen us at our very best & very worst! He is calm, patient & encouraging & never makes me feel rubbish, even if I am being! Currently we are having difficulties with canter, she’s learned to have a little buck, so I let her walk 🙄 so of course she does it again. I felt slightly ridiculous that after 40 years of riding, some of which at a good level, & 9 years with this pony that I couldn’t do a basic canter round the edge of the school. Till I remembered he was there to HELP me, & when we cracked the naughty bucking, he was made up! That’s what it should be like. Good luck!

 

[emfen1305]

@Pearlsasinger I have physio for my hip and do pilates (badly). My horse physio suggested trying to get on a mechanical horse but the only one i know of nearby isn't rentable unless you go as part of a clinic and they are always full by the RS clients. I will check out the one in AuL thought. No but I wish I had, I didn't learn anything, the only thing I gained was bit of resilience not just to get off and walk out, I used it as confidence building exercise for myself as have fallen off in that arena a couple of times but was dead chuffed just to be able to canter around!

@milliepops that's a good idea, I've been trying to judge hunt at local BD venues to write for someone who also teaches to see if I can get a rapport with them - I know judging is different but there is one judge who talked me through her marks and how to make them higher when I have written for her a couple of times so I have messaged her to see if she can come as she seems supportive of people trying to learn - unless of course you fancy a trip up north

I think I need to watch all star academy, I have seen it advertised so will definitely get on that. I like watching videos of clinics that people post too to get some ideas. I feel like the biggest thing with most of my instructors has been either they compare us to other combinations they teach or they won't change the lesson they had planned, so I have real issues with canter so I didn't want to do in the school for a while yet instructor decides we will do canter poles on a circle in a clock shape. We made it over but it was horribly messy and totally out of control and felt like I hadn't learnt anything from the session other than I was not ready to do them!

 

[tristar]

yes i think some trainers are ``specialists``because breeds of horse can vary greatly.

when you understand a breed or type or even bloodline it helps to find the way of riding and training that horse to bring out the best.

helping the rider to ride a particular type of horse by modifying the approach to training it is essential in an instructor

 

[Celtic Fringe]

Just to echo what many have already said. My cob was initially backed by someone who bred warmbloods but who was used to teaching a wide variety of people and horses. My pony is now on a yard where all the other horses are either warmbloods or Iberians. He is trained by people who are experienced, open minded and who work with the horse as an individual. They like him because he is a bit different and they like gently exploring how to get the best from the pony. He is now consistently working at Advanced Medium. This has not been a cheap option at all but it is amazing to see how he has progressed and is a happy, healthy and willing pony. Unfortunately we are in the SE so not readily accessible for you, but they do take short-term training liveries if you have any spare training funds!

 

[Pinkvboots]

Thanks all for your kind words - my confidence has been knocked slightly after my instructor laughed when I said I got 70% in my dressage and then I ended up convincing myself I didn't deserve it. Same instructor completely disregarded me in a jumping clinic because she liked my friends speedy arab and my confidence is still a bit fragile, so i was just told to practice over a cross pole by myself in the corner and I was made to feel like a hindrance to everyone else despite there only being 3 of us and we are all friends and they didn't mind staying low and working on technique so it was at that point I thought need to start the hunt again!

I've got the cobs can book @Orangehorse and I'll take a look at the 55 exercises one @daydreamer , I am fairly confident with the groundwork but could just benefit from some help when I ride because I think something is missing - I am improving very slowly but there's certain things (left bend, canter in general!) that I seem to have hit a wall with. I think I'll try and search for some instructors based up here, if anyone else has ideas for NW based dressage trainers I am open to suggestions. @AlexHyde I don't have my own transport but I will keep a look out for the clinics! I am just looking for someone who is sympathetic and won't rule us out when they see us, I am like a sponge when it comes to horses and learning so I just need someone who is equally as passionate about teaching as I am about learning!

Those instructors sound like arse holes seriously you shouldn't be made to feel like that especially as your paying for the experience, I wouldn't use them anymore have a good look round I found my guy from a card in the local tack shop, ask all your horse friends and give a few a go.

 

[daffy44]

Emfen, I'm really sorry that you have had the misfortune of experiencing some really rubbish trainers, its not you, its them! A good trainer will help you regardless of the breed of horse/pony you have, they will work to help you achieve your ambitions, and they will be so proud and delighted of all your achievements. Please dont let the rubbish trainers dent your confidence, you are worth more then that. Absolutely go and watch people teach, it will give you a good idea if you think they will suit you, and also we can learn a lot just from watching lessons, it all helps, you can do this!

 

[Kat]

Just thinking of suggestions, isn't Fran from Diamonds in the Rough Dressage based in the NW now? If she's close enough she'd be worth a try, very used to dressage with horses that aren't your typical dressage horse!

 

[emfen1305]

Thank you all again for your advice and apologies for my delayed reply! I am moving yards in a couple of weeks (same place as another HHoer as we discovered - small world!) so can start afresh once we are settled but in the mean time we got some online dressage scores back and won our pairs intro relay with 68% and then came 2nd in intro A with 67% and 5th in intro B with 66% so I am really pleased as he went up for sale a month ago after my confidence plummeted. I am really hoping this yard move will be the right thing, I've never moved yards before so I am feeling nervous and excited! Slightly off topic but didn't want to just go silent!

 

[Hallo2012]

Just thinking of suggestions, isn't Fran from Diamonds in the Rough Dressage based in the NW now? If she's close enough she'd be worth a try, very used to dressage with horses that aren't your typical dressage horse!

Thanks Kat I am based that way now

Message me if you want OP.... I’ll teach anyone on any breed as long as they are enthusiastic and keen to improve.

I went up to inter 1 on an ex racer and now have a 13hh native who is aimed at GP so oddities are my thing!