Insulin resistance/poor feet

[Clodagh]

A friend has a three year old who is completely insulin intolerant (recently diagnosed). He cannot eat grass or unsoaked hay or anything. I know nothing about it, is it genetic? He is by a coloured stallion out of a tb mare but I don't know any specific names.
He has had hoof x rays due to laminitis and has got no rotation but has got very assymmetrical bone development in them, they are bent outwards. He also has the most prominent sidebones I have ever seen, they could be used for teaching how to read x rays. He now has a barefoot trimmer working on getting him right, he was previously trimmed by a very well regarded farrier but presumably he is to blame for the poor leg/hoof development. He has never been shod.
It is of course incredibly upsetting for friend that this horse who is her dream buy, and she had since a foal, may now never be ridden. He has been on box rest for a month (I think, maybe 6 weeks) amd they are hoping to transition him to a completely bare of grass track system and see if he can cope. Apparently he snatched a few mouthfuls of haylage the other day and his digital pulses returned with a vengeance.
Has anyone ever experienced anything like this?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Oh heck.

I can’t offer any informed advice or snippets of hope, but the odds do seem to be stacked against him. Your poor friend.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

That sounds the most extreme case I’ve ever heard of. Yes it can be genetic, it isn’t just fat little natives who are IR. Many WB’s are and DP’s older sister was PTS because hers was so unmanageable but she did get to 11.

In most cases exercise is the key but for a 3 year old unless he can go swimming to kick his metabolism into action other than Metaphormin which can be given to reduce his levels I don’t know what else would work. The only thing I can suggest is a liver tonic which is basically milk thistle to get rid of the toxins in his system. It is really crucial his liver is working properly and with a case like his I would want to know what his liver enzyme levels are. I have used two detox supplements, Remount from Ron Fields which is a 14 day detox and Science Supplement Liver Aid for ongoing support.

There are some very good FB support groups which she could join for more advice and there are many people who use grass free track systems with great results. It’s this initial phase she needs to get him through. I hope she finds the help she needs as it is an awful thing to happen to such a young horse.

 

[ihatework]

I fear this is going to have an unhappy ending fairly soon ?

 

[Goldenstar]

I would advise your friend to get the inevitable over with sooner rather than later

 

[Clodagh]

I would advise your friend to get the inevitable over with sooner rather than later

If he were mine he would have gone already but there is a lot going on here and they want to try everything. They have said if he can't cope with a track system he will be pts. Barefoot trimmer says everything can be fixed. They have a lot of conflicting information.
I can't see him having a happy life, even of not a useful one. He is very sharp, not a pet type.

 

[Clodagh]

I fear this is going to have an unhappy ending fairly soon ?

Yes. It is awful. I've just never heard of anything like it.

 

[Clodagh]

That sounds the most extreme case I’ve ever heard of. Yes it can be genetic, it isn’t just fat little natives who are IR. Many WB’s are and DP’s older sister was PTS because hers was so unmanageable but she did get to 11.

In most cases exercise is the key but for a 3 year old unless he can go swimming to kick his metabolism into action other than Metaphormin which can be given to reduce his levels I don’t know what else would work. The only thing I can suggest is a liver tonic which is basically milk thistle to get rid of the toxins in his system. It is really crucial his liver is working properly and with a case like his I would want to know what his liver enzyme levels are. I have used two detox supplements, Remount from Ron Fields which is a 14 day detox and Science Supplement Liver Aid for ongoing support.

There are some very good FB support groups which she could join for more advice and there are many people who use grass free track systems with great results. It’s this initial phase she needs to get him through. I hope she finds the help she needs as it is an awful thing to happen to such a young horse.

I will suggest all that, thank you.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Barefoot trimmer says everything can be fixed.

Does the vet agree with this? Asymmetrical bone development in a 3yo? I doubt it .

 

[Clodagh]

Does the vet agree with this?

Well I think so. Although I'm not sure. It is work conversation. I will ask.

 

[ycbm]

I had a County standard mini shetland and she was a metabolic disaster at a year old. I believe it was in her breeding. Between 1 and 2 she had red rings on her coronets in summer, at 3 she went lame with laminitis although she was never fat. At 4 it was obvious she would never be able to be out on grass again even in winter and I gifted her back to the woman who had sold her to me, who had always regretted selling.

I did not have her tested or get her on to metformin because I know it doesn't last and is only ever going to go one way with a horse born with IR/EMS. The old owner was happy to face that, I wasn't.

Sorry your friend is facing this without any way out but a bad one.

.

 

[ycbm]

Barefoot trimmer says everything can be fixed.

Barefoot trimmer wants shooting*, never mind the horse.



*used metaphorically, not a serious suggestion.
.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Barefoot trimmer is selling false dreams and promises. Maybe culling them is a tad drastic, though. Or maybe not.

 

[Clodagh]

I had a County standard mini shetland and she was a metabolic disaster at a year old. I believe it was in her breeding. Between 1 and 2 she had red rings on her coronets in summer, at 3 she went lame with laminitis although she was never fat. At 4 it was obvious she would never be able to be out on grass again even in winter and I gifted her back to the woman who had sold her to me, who had always regretted selling.

I did not have her tested or get her on to metformin because I know it doesn't last and is only ever going to go one way with a horse born with IR/EMS. The old owner was happy to face that, I wasn't.

Sorry your friend is facing this without any way out but a bad one.

.[/QUOTE

Interestingly his soles are apparently red/orange.
Trimmer is very expensive !

 

[Mule]

I wouldn't blame the farrier for the feet, it just sounds like a result of his health problems.
It's awful for all that to happen the horse at such a young age. I feel very sorry for your friend.

 

[Clodagh]

I wouldn't blame the farrier for the feet, it just sounds like a result of his health problems.
It's awful for all that to happen the horse at such a young age. I feel very sorry for your friend.

I do, too. And she got his horse from a foal as she previously had an OTTB and although kept him going well into his twenties she always struggled with his soundness, She wanted a foal so it was done right from the start.

 

[Clodagh]

Another query - just for me - what actually causes sidebones? I always thought they were arthritic changes in old horses but obviously not.

 

[ester]

AFAIK usually landing laterally or medially.

 

[ycbm]

Another query - just for me - what actually causes sidebones? I always thought they were arthritic changes in old horses but obviously not.

Normally age, they are natural ossification of the lateral cartilage, especially in heavy horses. But landing on one side of the foot and heavy landing also do it.

 

[Clodagh]

OK, which makes sense seeing the wonkiness of his hooves compared to the internal bones.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If the developing bones have become wonky, I can’t see any return from that.

I had to PTS a just backed 4 yo sec D. I had had him from a 2yo. A lameness check and hock x Ray revealed a complete mess of wonkily shaped hock bones - it was incredible that he had been sound til he started work. Vet reckoned that he must have had an untreated joint ill as a foal.

 

[SEL]

Does your friend want the horse rideable or is she happy to keep and pay for a pet? I ask because I have a 16yo who was diagnosed with severe sidebone at age 10 and he's doing well as a field ornament - although I do use bute. He's a heavy horse. With what you describe I can't see the horse standing up to any sort of ridden career which would be problematic in trying to manage the insulin issues.

what a shame

 

[Clodagh]

She would be happy with pet, as long as he can go out on a track system.
You did well with yours.

 

[holeymoley]

What an unfortunate age for all this. Mine was 17 when diagnosed with insulin resistance and we managed to reverse it. His was brought on by being overweight years ago. Levothyroxin is fabulous stuff if your vet has it, it really gave my guy the kick start. The sidebone I can’t comment on, I have no experience of it. All this in such a young horse is a lifetime of upset though I feel.

 

[Clodagh]

What an unfortunate age for all this. Mine was 17 when diagnosed with insulin resistance and we managed to reverse it. His was brought on by being overweight years ago. Levothyroxin is fabulous stuff if your vet has it, it really gave my guy the kick start. The sidebone I can’t comment on, I have no experience of it. All this in such a young horse is a lifetime of upset though I feel.

I can't see a happy ending. Shes quite a trouble girl, who owns him, and her mother (my actual same age friend) is so worried about the whole thing.

 

[Clodagh]

She had him PTS today, he came down with laminitis again and was still on box rest from the last lot.
I'm so sad for her.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

That is really sad, sometimes nothing works and PTS is the kindest option.

 

[ycbm]

She had him PTS today, he came down with laminitis again and was still on box rest from the last lot.
I'm so sad for her.

She made a good decision, sad though it was.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

So sad my mare was recovering from laminitis when she went down with it again I had her pts what chance do they have in that situation, I really feel for your friend it's a horrible thing to go through.

 

[splashgirl45]

what a shame, i feel so sorry for the girl, she must be distraught....at least the horse is not suffering, i cant imagine how difficult it has been for her, its bad enough when they are old..