Interesting Farrier Post....

[bandit]

As some of you know, i've recently purchased a lovely TB mare (6yrs) and had her vetted etc... The vetting was fine, but he mentioned that her feet were not all that great, splayed dorsal walls in front, and recommended the farrier put double toe clips on her as that would help.

I am not a farrier but trust mine, and when i booked her in, I told him what the vet had said, but asked him to do what he thought was correct - he works with horese hooves - not me!!!

Anyway - he shod her yesterday, and my old boy (who's for sale - wink wink!!

) and when i got to the yard, he'd put traditional front shoes on with just the single toe clips.

Just called the farrier - not to complain - but to get his opinion on her feet as they didn't look all that great. Anyway, he said if anyone were to put quarter clips on her front feet, her heels would collapse forever (he said they were quite low now but not a problem). He also said there was some new hoof coming down that was in 9 months going to be an almost perfect shape and somehting recently - her being left etc.. making the hoof splay... He also said what a lovely set of feet she did have underneath and in time they shoudln't be an issue. He would prefer to shoe her over my old horse too who has quite crumbly feet - esp in summer.

So - just wondered if anyone else 'tells' their farrier what type of shoe to put on their horse, or if they take their advice? I know of some people who feel they know more about shoeing horses than those that do it professionally?

Opinions pls!!!!

Bx

 

[Tempi]

If you arent happy about the way she has been shod SAY!! Dont just ask your farriers opinion. I made this mistake, i spent all my time banging onto my old farrier about Bloss's heels and how i was unhappy as they were getting lower and lower and her feet were splaying out. In the end my old farrier actually made her lame - he never once listened to me and what i wanted for my horse. I knew what i was seeing and i was shocked he couldnt see it too.

My lovely new farrier (who ive had since march) has improved her feet no end, she now stands up straight (if you get what i mean) moves traight behind and in front, which she could never do before. And her heels are much better, they wer nearly collapsed to the point of no return when he took her over and im just so lucky that he was able to do her for me.

 

[bandit]

PG - i am very happy with my farrier - it was a query as to people's attitude to either listen to what htey say, or tell them what to do.

if i saw a problem with a farrier then i would change, and actually have done before when one farrier made my old boy lame as a duck and half his hoof came off!!!

New farrier - v good, and respect what he says and does.!!!

 

[sally2008]

Hmmmm, interesting one. If a farrier is experienced and conscientious about continued professional education then personally I would take his opinion regarding feet over that of most vets - after all they are specialists. Having said that though there are good and horrendous in both professions - I guess it boils down to who you trust most.

 

[Tempi]

oh ok, well if you are happy with what he does then id leave it up to him

 

[Thistle]

New horse arrived with quarter clips and short square toes, had been shod like that for years and OK. Farrier put toe clips and round toes, shorter heels. Result in 2 weeks horse developed corns which have now abscessed and is refusing to return to re shoe the horse.

See my looking for a farrier post.

 

[eohippus]

edited to say that why I was writing this your second post came up saying you were happy with your farrier, but some of these things still apply. sorry.

Its a hard decision to know what to do without knowing the horse or the farrier or vet, however firstly some things you can consider,
1. is this a new farrier or have you known him and respected his work so far?
2. The vet is not trained in farriery and although he noticed the splaying , which could be from the hooves just being long, did he mention the heels being low, as noticed by your farrier?
3. you could call another respected farrier to ask their opinion, Ie, if the hoof was slightly splaying from overgrowth and the heels were slightly low at the point but hoof structure in good condition would two toe clips help?
4. take photos of the feet from a solar, front, back and side view to keep as a record. You can also send these to giles@farrier-giles.co.uk and ask for his opinion, although, if you mention the vet recommendations you may find he will say that vets are not trained in farriery also, but should give you his experienced opinion, I will warn you he can be a bit brash and to the point but what he says is valid.
5. A lot of farriers do tend to feel a bit patronised by being questioned over their abilites or their decisions, but if your farrier is approachable he should not mind explaining things further to make you understand why he chose this decision. You have to word this carefully though, as I am sure you will anyway, going in and stating but the vet said this and that will probably only get his back up. Go in as if you are really interested in learning as much about it as possible. If he cannot give you valid answers or demonstrations to your questions then look for one that will and possibly change to him.
hope this helps
Dawn

 

[bandit]

good points made.

i called him prior to the shoeing and just told him the vets statement but that i respect what he has done for my old boy and htat he's to do what he feels should be done. the horse never had quarter clips to start with so it would be changing htings alot!

and i called for his opinion on her feet after shoeing as wanted to know generally if her feet were strong, grew well etc. all he said was thtat it would be to her detriment in his opinion if quarter clips were put on as they would allow her heals to drop.

Bx

 

[ihatework]

I am intrigued as to why putting quater clips on would make heels more likely to drop than just a toe clip

If anyone can enlighten me ...

 

[eohippus]

sounds like he and you are both working together well and respect each other. Sounds like you are really pleased with your new Tb as well, have fun and enjoy.
best regards
Dawn

 

[AmyMay]

I've always been guided by my Blacksmith - he's wonderful, and I wouldn't pressume to tell him how to do his job. If I didn't like how he shod my horse I wouldn't use him.

 

[Kelly1982]

I generally let my farrier get on with it, he is the expert after all and i know nothing although if i have a problem with something then i do say, which is very rare and mainly to find out his opinion is more than anything else.

 

[AmyMay]

[ QUOTE ]
I am intrigued as to why putting quater clips on would make heels more likely to drop than just a toe clip

[/ QUOTE ]
Loan horse is shod like this (as was my Freddy), I think it must offer more support to the foot - but now have a mental note to ask next time PJ is shod!!

 

[sally2008]

[ QUOTE ]
I am intrigued as to why putting quater clips on would make heels more likely to drop than just a toe clip

If anyone can enlighten me ...

[/ QUOTE ] Hmmm, I'm confused too having been taught that if you use a toe clip then the shoe has to be fitted to the front of the foot, which if the toe is long will cause pressure from the pedal bone to collapse the heels, were as if you have quarter clips the shoe can be fitted to the correct breakover point.

Bandit - out of interest who are the vet and farriers involved? PM me if you prefer.

 

[ihatework]

phew!! Glad I wasn't the only one thinking that, especially as my boy has been shod for years with quater clips especially so that the toe can be kept shorter, the shoe set fractionally further back to offer good heel support.

 

[bandit]

I suspect that my horses hooves don't have long toes, neither of them look like they do and they have the correct break over points...

i recall something along the lines of quarter clips where they aren't needed for remedial purposes, put undue pressure on the side walls of the hooves?

no idea myself. just glad she's got decent feet!!!

 

[pottamus]

I let my farrier get on with it, he is the professional and he is a remedial farrier for a major vets practice...so he must know his job. That said, I feel I can ask him questions if things don't seem right like when his hooves were crumbling in summer etc.
I suppose it is easy for me as my horse has good hooves and has the same shoe and trim each time...but if my farrier tried something new for some reason I would want to know why and then make my judgement on the outcome ready for the next shoeing...I would rather nip things in the bud quickly than let it drag on and cause problems. I think you have to trust the experts really and use you own common sense and knowledge of your horses anatomy.

 

[ss1]

I've had farrier problems quite recently. My TB mare has fantastic feet, but I noticed that her feet were getting quite long so I asked my farrier about it. All he did was cut them right back, what I really wanted was for him to explain to me why this was and whether it was correct. In my opinion her toes were very long but I'm not a farrier so wanted an expert's opinion. I asked him what size she took and he said '1'. He used to put on a size '0' so when I asked him why the size change he said, 'oh well, they fit don't they?'

Really wasn't happy with this so asked the opinion of a different farrier and he warned me not to jump her until her feet had been cut back as they were far too long, her heels were too low and there was too much strain on the tendons.

Just goes to show that some farriers are interested in putting on a pair of shoes quickly and not addressing the issues/questions asked by owners and that some are actually willing to explain things to you.

Needless to say I have changed farrier and now have faith in my farrier. I can ask him all the questions I want and he always answers. My horse works so much better now and I can really see the difference when I compare her feet to a picture of what they were like 3 months ago. She even stands much better now, she stands up straight if that makes any sense.

I would say that a good farrier knows best and would never go back to a farrier that didn't explain why he was shoeing my horse in a particular way or answer any of my questions.

 

[allijudd]

im terrible and pester my farriers for information about what they are doing and why...but they tlerate me and give me such exellent information that i am now making judgement calls and discussing aspects knowledgably with them..

i know they know i respect them and i get spades in return....

 

[kerrylou123]

im always on at my farrier about my horses feet, im a but paranoid about them to be honest, but my new tb mare has had quater clips on 2day, as her heels are collapsing, they look a bit strange as i've never had them on any of my horses before, but he explained eveything in full to me, and even drew pics for me, so i trust his judgement completely!

 

[piebaldsparkle]

Trust my farrier, so discuss any concerns, but leave final decision to him - he's trained, I'm not. Would be like paying for a consultant and then not taking his advise otherwise!!!!

 

[machannah]

I have a TB mare whose feet arent great, but putting toe clips on mean you have to shoe exactly to the foot sometimes meaning that the heel doesnt get supported fully, whereas putting shoes on with quarter clips mean the shoe can be nailed further back allowing it to support the heals more. From what I can see it allows the farriers to grow the foot where they need to, as to allow them to shape in better over time.

My girlie has had a mix depending on what her feet are like, but her feet grow and if she isnt shod on the 5/6 week then they end up a mess. Just keep an eye on them, but i would ensure that you get her done regularly to begin with until you know her well enough

 

[Pidge]

I trust my farrier so I let him get on with shoeing Pidge, I just ask him to do whats necessary and what I'll be doing with Pidge and pay the bill!