Intermittent lameness/falling over

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Shelly Sexbomb

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Hello all, spent a heck of a time browsing all these threads and found a wealth of information, for which I say, thank you!!
I have decided to post my situation to see what you all think. (I am hoping to KNOW tomorrow when my boy gets seen again by the vet)
I bought a 7yr old 14hh cob last February. Novice, first ever owned, gettin old so needed to do it before I am totally 'past it.' Daughter rode him first and he slipped going downhill, the saddle slipped and she hit the deck so hasnt wanted to ride since. Had a couple of the other horse owners at the yard exercise him and EVERYTIME he is ridden (just walk and trot) he stumbles (to his knees or knuckles under at the rear) and looks really stiff in his hocks. Wont canter on the lunge, and when he is coerced into it he falls over. Anyway, in July he became noticeably lame whilst be ridden so I got the vet out. She x-rayed and said POSSIBLE bone cyst on stifle. Battle with insurance to get the go ahead to take him to local equine hospital, which after 4 months (!!) they finally agreed to. This was just before Christmas, and as I had to cover the transport and boarding costs myself, i have had to wait until after to take him. Meantime he has fallen over for no apparent reason, almost crushing the YO, so I am not happy to transport him, hence the vet coming to me again tomorrow. He also struggles to pick his hinds up for the farrier, usually falling on him......sometimes wobbles a fair bit when fronts are picked up too. What are your thought? Wobblers has occurred to me, i am trying to face the worst case scenario so anything else will be a 'bonus' Overall he looks ok, just stiffness in the back leg, but it would seem he CANNOT balance on 3 legs, no matter which three they are :(
 
The tripping could be arthritis in his front fetlocks, it was the first symptom of my horses arthritis, and the reluctance to canter could be arthritis of the hocks although I knew a horse who couldn't canter (he would go up to canter fairly easily but them couldn't coordinate himself) turns out he had a damaged stifle.
 
Thanks Kamikaze. I dont think I will sleep well tonight. I become slightly obsessed with seeing what all the possibilities are. He hasnt been worked since end of July so whatever it is conservative treatment/rest isnt really making a difference. He doesnt seem to be in pain, although that said, he is getting quite crabby and irritable, but that could be boredom. This time tomorrow i should be a bit wiser.
 
Good luck today. My cob sometimes struggles with lifting hinds - he has hock spavins. Cobs are prone to hock problems even at a young age. I have x-rays on mine today as he is currently lame in front (only on a circle) I think it is arthritis of some type but he is 16 this year. Let us know how you get on.
 
Well, a little wiser, but not much....
He has back and neck problems. He does indeed have a small cyst on his stifle but this is not thought to be troublesome. His back is going into spasms causing the falls. He also appears to be slightly affected neurologically too, so thoughts are he has maybe gone over in a cart or had some sort of accident previously which has caused the damage, impinging the nerve somewhere. So not technically wobblers, he passed MOST of the tests, but offside front and nearside hind are clearly affected. More x rays (back and neck this time) next week, and hopefully will have a definitive answer as to whether he is fixable (or not) Thanks for the replies and good wishes :) x
 
Shelly Sexbomb said:
Well, a little wiser, but not much....
He has back and neck problems. He does indeed have a small cyst on his stifle but this is not thought to be troublesome. His back is going into spasms causing the falls. He also appears to be slightly affected neurologically too, so thoughts are he has maybe gone over in a cart or had some sort of accident previously which has caused the damage, impinging the nerve somewhere. So not technically wobblers, he passed MOST of the tests, but offside front and nearside hind are clearly affected. More x rays (back and neck this time) next week, and hopefully will have a definitive answer as to whether he is fixable (or not) Thanks for the replies and good wishes :) x
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My lovely TB would stumble a lot and eventually fell over with me on him. He was seen regularly by a chiropractor and after each visit would improve.

After he fell over with me the vet and chiropractor working together knocked him out and manipulated him under general anaesthetic. He never looked back and went on to be successful in many disciplines. Stumbling can have many causes but if the 7th cervical vertebrae is out of alignment then the nerves to the front legs get pinched and cause the stumbling. Not wanting to go downhill is another symptom of neck problems.
 
Yesterdays test showed he does not move his left hind when placed across the right, and ditto on the front right. He was not lame at all, and passed all the other neurological tests ok. He did dip significantly and danced around when pressure was applied to his back, and also his neck. Only thing I can do now is await the x=rays and hope that they are clear enough to show the problem, otherwise its major expense to ship him 170 miles for cintography (sp?) Insurance aren't the best, it took them 4 months from initial incident to ok the further investigations, and they do not cover transportation or boarding, so it may well be the end of the line as far as diagnostics go next week. Keep fingers crossed we get the info we need :(
 
Update: His x rays show 3 lesions, 2 in his neck and one in his back, probably from old injuries. Untreatable and progressive. Vet advice was PTS as he may be dangerous (pain has caused him to fall over a few times) YO is happy to have him on the yard and wait until his quality of life worsens. What do I do? :'(
 
So sorry OP. Poor boy.
Sadly as it's untreatable & progressive, his quality of life will never get better, only worse, and he'll always be in pain.

What an utterly awful position for you all to be in.


Do what you think is right for him.

Huge hugs and strengh x
 
Its a horrible situation. If he was mine I would have had him PTS straight away as in the long run the stress will be less ! everytime you see him from now on it may play on your mind and the inevitable is going to happen. There is also the risk he will fall and injure the person leading him! Sorry if thats not what you wanted to hear .
 
I'd advise you to get your vet to contact your insurance company to make them aware of the foregoing before you decide whether or not to PTS.
Such a pity you've not had a very good experience with owning your first ever horse. You've done your very best getting him thoroughly investigated by a vet, and sadly it sounds as though PTS would be the kindest thing to do.
 
So sorry to hear the news is not good. If there is a chance he will fall and injure himself or not be able to get back up I would consider pts now. If the vet advises pts ask them the reasons so you have more facts to base decision on.
 
It seems he has intermittent 'spasms' causing him to fall. Few and far between. Think the vet felt obliged to point out that this could potentially be dangerous for handlers due to crush risk. We have a note on his door sayin he can only be handled by YO and me as we are aware of his condition and allow him to take his time plodding about. I think I have decided that whilst he is happy and quite frisky most days he is staying as my very expensive pasture pet. If/when things get worse and he looks unhappy then I will reassess. Thanks for your kind words everyone x
 
So sorry to read this outcome OP. Well done for persevering and getting the answers, even though they are devastating. Nothing wrong with letting your horse have some time before you have to make the decision so long as he is comfortable and safe to be around. You do just need to watch him objectively thought to make sure you make the decision at the right time - its all too easy to get too close to the issue and not be able to see what is quite blatant to outsiders. All the best.
 
I take it he is not insured ,as that needs taking into account. Dont make light of the crush risk it is very real as you have a horse that barely knows where its legs are, As hard as it sounds I would not be risking other peoples safety on a livery yard. I am surprised the yard owners happy to take that risk. wobblers syndrome which he has in all bar cause is a very distressing condition for the horse .
Please talk to your vet realistically and take their advice.
 
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popsdosh said:
I take it he is not insured ,as that needs taking into account. Dont make light of the crush risk it is very real as you have a horse that barely knows where its legs are, As hard as it sounds I would not be risking other peoples safety on a livery yard. I am surprised the yard owners happy to take that risk. wobblers syndrome which he has in all bar cause is a very distressing condition for the horse .
Please talk to your vet realistically and take their advice.
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He is insured. Not quite sure of the relevance of that though, as there is no treatment recommended or available. His neurological symptoms are negligable. He has only fallen once and that was because he whipped his head round quickly towards the bale of hay outside his stable door (as he was coming out) and it sent his back into spasm. Obviously he stumbles and falls a fair bit when ridden as this would put him in immense pain. He hasnt been ridden since July and will never be ridden again. Generally speaking, he is quite stable. He can run around the paddock bucking and flinging like a two year old most days so I cannot find it within me to have him pts yet. Will be keeping a close eye and the minute things look worse then action will be taken. Am thinking another summer at grass would be nice for him x
 
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Yard owner is a big softy and has told me she is more than happy to continue having him on the yard. We have a sign on his door stating he is only to be handled by those aware of his condition ie YO and me x
 
popsdosh said:
The relevance of the insurance is they will not insure him at next renewal so you will get no payout on him.
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Yeah I am aware of that. Its not a concern. I just want to give him a little time to kick up his heels and enjoy himself. I havent insured loss of use anyway so wont get a pay out. I have set the money aside for euthanasia when I feel the time is right :/
 
Shelly Sexbomb said:
Yeah I am aware of that. Its not a concern. I just want to give him a little time to kick up his heels and enjoy himself. I havent insured loss of use anyway so wont get a pay out. I have set the money aside for euthanasia when I feel the time is right :/
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Even if not insured for LOU, surely he is insured for death by accident, disease etc which means the company should pay out on his death as it is owing to his problems; lots of companies pay disposal costs too so check your policy. Do check, don't let them fob you off, most decent companies will pay out on death but it must be done by their book. They will need assurances from your vet that the horse is in permanent pain no matter which drugs are used, has no viable pain free future and is a danger to anyone handling him owing to the problems of the disease he has; vet needs to lay it on a bit thick if he will and that it is compassionate destruction (not just on a whim).

That's bye the bye anyway TBH as you need to do what is best for the horse regardless of any payout. It's alright saying let him enjoy himself for a bit but you honestly have no idea when the next attack will come on which means he might fall, get trapped, not able to get back up without further injury and so on; that is not a good quality of life however well you look after him. I'm sorry, but for his sake and the safety of anyone that handles him, please get it done quickly.
 
I have informed the insurance company of the vets recommendations. Am going to have a long chat with YO today. Am NOT going to rush this but will be giving it a lot of careful thought and talking to anyone and everyone that can advise. I take your point about if he falls and gets cast or injures himself further and TBH I think that is my main concern atm :(
 
I am so sorry for your situation how heartbreaking, I totally understand you not feeling ready it must have been an awfull shock to be told to have him pts, I really feel for you I do but in your shoes I would opt for doing it as soon as possible I would not want my last memory of him struggling or getting hurt and being pts a matter of urgency, bless you its a horrible situation to be in especially as its your first horse please keep us updated.
 
Update***
Two years almost to the day and I have reached the decision and put the poor lad to sleep. He still had quality of life but better a day too soon than a day too late. Gutted, heartbroken but still feel it was the right thing and the right time :'(
 
Shelly Sexbomb said:
Well, a little wiser, but not much....
He has back and neck problems. He does indeed have a small cyst on his stifle but this is not thought to be troublesome. His back is going into spasms causing the falls. He also appears to be slightly affected neurologically too, so thoughts are he has maybe gone over in a cart or had some sort of accident previously which has caused the damage, impinging the nerve somewhere. So not technically wobblers, he passed MOST of the tests, but offside front and nearside hind are clearly affected. More x rays (back and neck this time) next week, and hopefully will have a definitive answer as to whether he is fixable (or not) Thanks for the replies and good wishes :) x
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I lost a 10 year old to wobblers/CVM caused by traumatic injury of the neck (falling over in the field) and he was too damaged to save so he was pts immediately after diagnosis at Liverpool Philip Leverhulme Horspital. So I am quite hot on neuro problems. My current horse was displaying signs, the physio did a tail sway test and he was all over the place with his hind legs. So he went for a vet assessment, they x-rayed his neck and found arthritic changes in C5/C6 so he was given a steroid injection into the neck. He was also xrayed along his back and found to have 'overcrowded spinous processess' but not Kissing Spine per se.

He is due to go back to the vets on the 3rd Feb for his 'loss of performance' claim which the neck was covered by the insurance, and he may depending on the vets findings have another steroid injection into the neck again. Unfortunately he is displaying intermittent lameness (four times since Sept) in trot only which I suspect is the scar tissue and calcification from a previous injury which has made him unable to be jumped anymore so he will probably have his leg re scanned to see if the condition has progressed further. Its a shame if this is the case, as he was doing really well on the move to the new yard, my vet was very pleased with his progress. I feel totally gutted.

OP I hope you get your problems sorted out. C6 is the vertebrae which is most difficult to treat, especially if other vertebrae are affected. My horse that was PTS with wobblers we were told had a gap of only 17mm along his spinal column to allow the cord to pass through, typically a horse of his age/breed and build should have had a gap of 52mm. Don't trust portable xray machines that your vet provides. My vets portable xray machine gave a false reading and the horse was misdiagnosed for a number of months before having decent xrays at Liverpool teaching hospital with a gigantic xray machine.
 
Thanks all. Knew it would be painful but oh my gosh, I seriously underestimated HOW painful. Applecart I have read many posts on wobblers and seen comments from you about yours, hugs all round I think :'(
 
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