Introducing a dog to horses (properly)

JennBags

JennBags

HHOSS Wonder Woman
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As some of you may know, I've been lucky enough to get my own land and move my horses onto it. In usual JB fashion, the time whizzed by and I didn't get round to working out how to introduce Juno to the horses so just let them get on with it and hoped for the best. Juno wavers between being terrified of them, and trying to herd them up, nipping at their hind feet, so the horses are also wary of her. I've put her on leash while they're around, but would ideally like to have her loose around them yet be safe.

Does anyone have any bright ideas please? Pictures for attention :)

https://flic.kr/p/2csYK9X
https://flic.kr/p/2cvz9dH
 
I have the same issue, although my little collie just raced straight in and went for the heels and got kicked (lightly enough not to deter him). He wasn’t meant to be off lead, pulled it out of my hands as I was switching leads.

So now I have gone back a lot of stages to only taking him up there when I am actively working with him, so on a lead or longline and working on all his obedience skills in the adjacent field. He won’t be allowed off lead until he is 100% reliable in other off lead situations and works with me in the field without acknowledging the horses or showing any interest in them. Loads of treats, games and interaction with me. Plus lots of work away from the horses on his impulse control and obedience. I’m fully expecting to not be able to be off lead around them for another year or so as his impulse is so strong and his self restraint still so weak. (We struggle a bit as I only have him irregularly, when he’s with my partner he doesn’t see horses). I have one horse that would happily kill a dog if it got close, so not worth the risk.
 
Karran said:
I can't help but the first time I took Mrs Spaniel up to the yard one of the horse leaned down and then sneezed in her face!!
Since then she has stayed wary of getting too close!
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Similar sort of thing happened for Luna. The horses all came over as usual for food, she jumped up the electric fence for a closer look, got a shock and now stays well away from the horses.
 
JB, I'd attach her to a long line which could be reeled in at any time close to barrow. Don't let it go completely to start with.
If you need to groom horses etc then either tie her up or shut her in when you can't give her your full attention.
Make it a work in progress through the winter, just like you did with on lead training to start with x
 
Oh dear JB, not a good idea! Glad I wasn’t there, not sure who I would have been the most terrified for, horses or dog. Has she ever seen horses before? As with most things, it should be a step at a time.
In an ideal world, we introduce dogs just seeing horses heads over stable doors, tied on the yard or watch them working in the arena.
I know you can’t have this scenario but you need to instil that horses are not for chasing or rounding up.
Definitely on a lead and hopefully progress to a long line. It takes work until you can trust a dog to be loose with horses in a field.
 
Chiffy said:
Oh dear JB, not a good idea! Glad I wasn’t there, not sure who I would have been the most terrified for, horses or dog. Has she ever seen horses before? As with most things, it should be a step at a time.
In an ideal world, we introduce dogs just seeing horses heads over stable doors, tied on the yard or watch them working in the arena.
I know you can’t have this scenario but you need to instil that horses are not for chasing or rounding up.
Definitely on a lead and hopefully progress to a long line. It takes work until you can trust a dog to be loose with horses in a field.
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I knew you'd disapprove Chiffy, you're much more ordered and organised than me. She has met horses before but just not been loose with them, and she'd been fine until some friends walked over with their dogs and she went a bit hyper, that's when she started herding the horses up; up until then and on the previous couple of visits she'd just kept out of their way.
I kept her on a long lead this morning and she was definitely more settled.
Thanks all.
 
Glad the long lead worked this morning, Poppy will now trundle beside a barrow round the fields, tho I do still have to pop her on a long line or even tie her if am doing ditches or brambles etc as she will slope off if not watched lol x
The mini fuzzies will also give chase to her so some mornings I shut them in so life is easier :)
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Glad the long lead worked this morning, Poppy will now trundle beside a barrow round the fields, tho I do still have to pop her on a long line or even tie her if am doing ditches or brambles etc as she will slope off if not watched lol x
The mini fuzzies will also give chase to her so some mornings I shut them in so life is easier :)
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This is the problem, the horses are 'wild' in their field, so are not reliable, either. What happens if something unexpected spooks them?

We did have an elderly Clydesdale mare, who taught our JRTs, when they were pups, to keep out of horses' way by brushing them with a hind hoof. They were shocking for digging their way under the gate and running off across the fields but they always stayed well away from the horses. We did have a cat who got his tail stood on by a Shire in the field and even that didn't persuade him to give the horses a wide berth.;)

These days we just have a 'horses and dogs don't mix' rule, even though they all have to use the yard. We avoid accidents that way.
 
Afraid I'm one who doesnt let my dogs loose with my ponies-my ponies have been seen going for the neighbouring farm collies in their paddocks (and good on them) and its just not worth the risk. Plus I tend to have dogs that arent great at being satisfied when my attention is elsewhere so they get dedicated time and the ponies do as well. I have had dogs in the past who were 100% with horses but horses ime are never 100% with dogs and there can be a tipping point with either.
 
Mine are fine with horses and the horses are fine with them. I stlil didn't used to take the dogs in the field when I was poo picking or anything as they would poover for England. The lurcher would go and chase rabbits. The only time the dogs came in the field was if I was setting out through the paddock to go for a walk. So it may be an unrealistic expectation that your dog will happily pootle around the horses while they graze and you do jobs. :-)

I get it would be nice to at least not have her rushing off to chase them while they are in the vicinity but I imagine you need absolute obediance first, and then it will come.
 
Clodagh said:
So it may be an unrealistic expectation that your dog will happily pootle around the horses while they graze and you do jobs. :)
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I had this dream with my setter-he was 100% with the ponies (although I could never trust the luso with him, he basically wanted to figure out how dogs worked by pulling them apart so I would leave him indoors while poo picking) but the setter hated the fact that I wasnt paying him attention. honestly, 8 acres of fenced paddock with a river and all sorts to play with and he would literally lie down at the gate and howl lol. And no, he was way to smart to endlessly fetch balls.
 
In an ideal world dogs will bimble about while you do the horses - plenty of dogs do, but not all and we have to factor in their genetic inclinations and prey drive.
My older one was raised with horses, but if I let him out now in a field to see what would happen he would cause mayhem and probably take a direct hit to the brain - so I don't risk it.
Often the urge to fulfil that urge (herd, chase, fixate, whatever) is more self-fulfilling than anything a human can offer. We tend to be very boring creatures.
There are at least two examples here on this thread of dogs being corrected 'by nature' who now choose to avoid horses. For Karran and Theresa's dogs, an action was followed by an immediate consequence so now they prefer to give horses a wide berth because it's not worth the risk of getting a clunk. That's how dogs learn. The consequence of any action is either something good happening, or something bad. They don't tend to work with neutral, in my opinion.

One for another day, but first introductions to any animals should be controlled by you, because what a dog learns first is generally what it will always revert to and you will have to then train over the top of it.
Definitely keep her on a line, prepare for this to take some time (and you cannot train a dog to do anything when you are focused on horsey jobs - it has to be one or the other) try to imbue the fact that getting dizzy around them will not result in anything good (put her away, for example) and reconcile yourself to the fact that she may never be safe around them off lead.
 
I'd use a long line with an older pup who is bound to be curious - esp a breed like a collie which is genetically predisposed to 'moving animals = chase/herd/possible nip'. Just working on basic obedience around the distraction of them. Come/stay/stop type of commands are the most useful around horses.

With baby pups I let them off from day one in yard, so they see the horses through the fence. I send the horses away so they move quickly, and at that age pup is always more interested in my high pitched recall noise and promise of a treat...so tend to learn from day one that moving horses mean come to me, and also that they arent a big deal and so no need to get excited.

Out of all of mine, I dont allow the greyhounds in the field because they're a bit brain dead and just want to zoom about without thinking about whats happening around them. One of the horses would take offence if they came too close and would chase, but the hounds wouldn't understand and may get themselves in trouble! The spaniels and big dogs are allowed in the field, they've grown up with the horses and know to not bother them and to move away if the horses approach. One isnt allowed off lead in the yard at all as he arrived as an adult and sees them in their natural state - as prey, and would chase them down and bite them if he was able to. He is currently working on not getting wound up upon sight of them, and is doing well with that...when they're stationary!
 
Following this thread - we've just acquired a 6 month old Kelpie - he'd never seen a horse before. Prey drive is high, so I'm going to have to be mega careful. When I take him to the yard, he's kept on a long line, or kept in the car while I'm working with the horse. We've started obedience classes, but I feel this may be a long road. Hopefully with time and patience, he will concentrate solely on me - and learn to ignore the horses - but as CC has said, we have to factor in their genetic inclinations, so I have to be realistic and accept that this may never happen! I've had Border Collies in the past, and they were as good as gold around the horses - if they even so much as glanced in their direction - one sharp word from me and they were back with me in an instant. Hopefully, as this little lad has had virtually no training, he'll learn quick and ignore the urge to chase and herd. If not - well I'll just have to let him practice on the grandchildren!
 
It took us a good two years to get out boxer x staffy rescue good with horses, but it was worth it as he is now absolutely perfect and wanders round the yard loose with our other dog (boxer x spaniel who we got aged 9 weeks and lived on a yard with us so has been good with horses from day one)

For us it was bite sized chunks, on a lead initially and keeping distance and then gradually getting him closer. We did also, at times, tie him on a tie out lead on the yard where he could just watch what was going on. He guards me and I'm sure was convinced the horses were going to hurt me, once he had been around them and had started to learn they weren't trying to hurt anyone he became more respectful. As a bull breed his instant reaction was to jump at their faces, so we started him around my horse who is very tolerant of dogs, rewarding calmness and sitting and reprimanding him jumping. Once he was good at that we moved onto the same thing ridden (me riding, OH on ground with dog) and gradually worked our way through all the situations that the dog would react in. We are still mindful and careful however he is 100 time better, hides in my horses stable with him when its wet and cold and can go out for a ride in the field and will run alongside while horse and rider trot and canter. Befioe he would have jumped and barked.

It was a lot of work to start with, lots of planning and setting it up to be successful but it was absolutely worth it. Everyone loves him and he has run of the yard when we go up which he loves.

My advice is don't do anything that you cant make a success. Make sure you have the right set up and the right help. Don't avoid things though, deal with each situation you might end up in, have a plan and be consistent.
 
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