Irish Sports Horses

I always thought it was just tb and id in varying proportions, other breeds I thought would just be referred to in the usual way, connie x, tb x, id x etc!!
 
I used to think it was a breed, a TB crossed with an ID. Then I got Belle who is registered with the ISH Register and listed as an ISH on her passport but she is half KWPN, 3/8 TB and 1/8 ID. :) I think it's just any cross with a bit of Irish in these days!
 
If this were the case then warmbloods would not be a breed, there are full tb and pinto stallions approved by certain countries under their studbooks and as such their offspring can be registered as either oldenburg, dutch, hanoverian etc.

so going back to the ISH, yes it can be any varying amount of id to tb blood, but they are still registered in a studbook and the stallions to get such papers have to be graded/approved, therefore making it a breed as such???
 
I thought traditionally an ISH was a cross between a pure bred tb and id for more than two (or possibly three) generations.
 
My gelding is an Irish Sports horse, his dad is a Canadian Thoroughbred and his mum is also an ISH! He is registered with the Irish Sports horse board though. Will it be anything to do with his sire being an approved stallion maybe?!
 
It's a type of sport horse, as it doesn't have a common origin so to me thats not actually a breed, but then you could argue that is how the TB came about, but now this type is being bred, hence it's own society.
 
Its a type, my ISH mare had the green ISH passport and was draught x connie, my husbands ISH was 3/4 TB x connie. He looked like a TB with pony head and feet, she looked like a Sec D!
 
I believe their breeding is more accurately referred to as 'out of Ireland, by Boat' :D (stole that from another user but can't remember who). They are basically a type which I just find silly, technically 3 of my old boys are Irish sport horses as they were bred on Irish hunting yard, however we had no papers or pedigree for any of them. Maybe I'm just being snobby but I think its people just jumping on a bandwagon as 'breeding' now seems to be so much more important than it was. Whatever happened to just looking at a horse and judging it for what it is, who gives a toffee if you can trace its pedigree back 12 generations as long as it does the job?

PS: Obviously I do think its different for actual pure breeds but 'types' who cares... its just a riding horse.
 
Katikins said:
Maybe I'm just being snobby but I think its people just jumping on a bandwagon as 'breeding' now seems to be so much more important than it was.
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I think its more because the Irish have been breeding fantastic horses for such a long time that its become fashionable to have an Irish horse.

I suppose it also gives a little credibility to all those horses that do not have pedigrees as long as your arm but do the job well (as many of the Irish do!).

Sad really that we can't just accept the "mongrels" as being fantasic just as they are!
 
Paddydou said:
I think its more because the Irish have been breeding fantastic horses for such a long time that its become fashionable to have an Irish horse.

I suppose it also gives a little credibility to all those horses that do not have pedigrees as long as your arm but do the job well (as many of the Irish do!).

Sad really that we can't just accept the "mongrels" as being fantasic just as they are!
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I totally agree with you. I'd have an Irish 'mongrel' over a pedigree pretty much any day of the week. They are just fantastic, but I think they had a fabulous reputation without needing some fancy name stamping on them - well at least they did in my PC/RC when I was in my teenage years. I must say, I do love it when you have horses going round Badminton/Burghley with 'unknown breeding' :)
 
So you are basically saying that I am jumping on the bandwagon for having a horse with known breeding?!
I couldn't give a toss about breeding - but thankfully my horses breeders only used approved horses for breeding.
 
rsorry to hijack - does a horse have to have papers etc to prove its breeding in order to be registered as this "type"/breed etc...?
 
only_me said:
So you are basically saying that I am jumping on the bandwagon for having a horse with known breeding?!
I couldn't give a toss about breeding - but thankfully my horses breeders only used approved horses for breeding.
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HAHA, one of the reasons I find this forum so amusing. Just because we are making generalisations does not mean that we are referring to EVERY horse and EVERY owner. This happens all the time and never fails to make me giggle :)

My last horse was a pink papered KWPN (also a fricking lunatic, unlike my love irish 'mongrels') so no, I am not saying you are jumping on a bandwagon. I just don't see the need to start making up these new 'breeds' or 'types' when anyone with an ounce of horsey knowledge will know a good horse whether it has papers or not!
 
only_me said:
So you are basically saying that I am jumping on the bandwagon for having a horse with known breeding?!
I couldn't give a toss about breeding - but thankfully my horses breeders only used approved horses for breeding.
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Me, no not at all.

I think it's a good thing that you can trace how a horse is bred, be it a breed or a type.

Personally I think breeding is important, even if it's not a 'breed' so to speak, so people are producing quality horses and improving a certain types, I think having a breed society to promote better breeding is always good thing.
 
ISH is a effectively a type same as KWPN ( my friend had a registerd KWPN mare - yet she had King of Diamonds as her grandsire in her passport).

For a foal to be registered as an ISH, both sire and dam need to be registered but it is no longer necessarily a straight (ish) mix of ID x TB - particularly with the introduction of warmbloods as well.

Irish breeding has become highly desired - and IMO and from personal experience from what I have seen - there was a lot of poor quality horses that came from Ireland when many breeders tried to introduce warmbloods. They lost the quality and temperament that "most" Irish horses have. Then there seemed tobe a swing back and a harking for the traditionial proven bloodlines (which is why there would seem to be a huge number of horses "believed" to have CloverHill/King of Diamonds blood lines)

Don't knock a good breeding programme. The breeders (and over here too) put a lot of effort into researching lines/ability to try to produce a quality youngster. As a very rough idea - something with KOD in it seems to be able to showjump pretty well (and I have known 9 and they all did/do). If you know your bloodlines/what you are aiming for, then it just helps reduce the risk a bit. There are certain stallions who have consistenly produced talented but quirky offspring - so great for professionials but not for your average Jo and I would not consider certain lines for myself. Sure we all know of a fantastic horse of unknown breeding that proved to be brilliant and also that good breeding doesn't guarantee top performance but trying to be methodical means you just stack up the cards a little higher in your favour.
 
Tradionally a proper ISH is a Thoroughbred x Irish Draught. However, nowadays there are many variations and some people even advertise their Thoroughbreds as ISH to try and make them more sellable!
 
As I said about oh lets see 4 posts earlier - ISH = a foal born to a stallion and mare registerd to the ISHB. Therefore it is a type not a breed and no longer does ISH denote a TB x ID,..
 
An irish sports horse will be reg. with sport horse ireland, anything with unknown parentage will have a white book, anything with known breeding a blue or green book. Now all irish horses are with horse sport ireland they are making the effort to log/microchip them all, and so in the long term (lets say 5 gens time) they will all be with blue or green books as all will have known parentage. It is important, as certain irish sires produce horses good for certain disciplines. i know my ISH stallions well and know the types i like and the bloodlines. Basically an irish sport horse is a horse with known parentage bred in ireland, sire or dam can be warmblood, tb, ID, etc. as long as they are also reg with their breed soc. and mare covered in ireland by a stallion standing there. Now you can still find some "freaks" that have exceptional ability out of ireland but aren't reg. the passports and chipping of all foals will eventually change this.
 
Luci07 said:
As I said about oh lets see 4 posts earlier - ISH = a foal born to a stallion and mare registerd to the ISHB. Therefore it is a type not a breed and no longer does ISH denote a TB x ID,..
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Agree with you BUT when does a breed become a type and vice-versa, as I said at the beginning of this thread, many european studbooks, e.g oldenburg, hanoverian, westphalian all have stallions approved under each others studbooks, also approve full tb's even a pinto, cavalier royale is approved under the ISH but also under other studbooks!! So do you say that oldenburgs and other warmbloods aren't breeds but types????? If so then the ISH is an irish warmblood!!!!!
 
competitiondiva said:
Agree with you BUT when does a breed become a type and vice-versa, as I said at the beginning of this thread, many european studbooks, e.g oldenburg, hanoverian, westphalian all have stallions approved under each others studbooks, also approve full tb's even a pinto, cavalier royale is approved under the ISH but also under other studbooks!! So do you say that oldenburgs and other warmbloods aren't breeds but types????? If so then the ISH is an irish warmblood!!!!!
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That is a very interesting point but think another debate entirely..!. I am not a breeder so am not really qualified to answer but educated guess would say - a type could be deemed a breed when there are standards that be met? but then that wouldn't answer why say, Hanovarians can be put back to pure TB's (i.e Accondy) and still be registered purebred. But THANK YOU for reading the thread through so the discussion continues.. it makes it far more interesting reading!
 
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