Irish vet certificate - is this a 5 stage vetting?

Rachmeister

Rachmeister

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Does anyone know whether an Irish vet's certificate that states the horse is fit for riding and jumping is the equivalent of our 5 stage vetting procedure? Unlike the UK certificate which goes into details on the reverse of the form about the 5 stages of the procedure there seems to be nothing on the certificate to say what the vet did to form his opinion.

Also how recent should an advert's "recent 5 stage vet certificate" really be? Is September last year "recent" - I would have thought not? Any views?
 
Hmm well Beau came from Goresbridge sales in ireland, and he came with a 5 stage vetting cert, the actual title of the cert is:

Certificate of Veterinary Examination.

It is futher down in the details that it talks about it being a 5 stage and what the stages are, thee is nothing on the reverse, it is all on the front page?

however im not sure if this is slightly different to an ordinary Isrish vetting as it does say at the top 'To be utilised only at Goresbridge Horse Sales.'

Sep last year is not recent, insurers usually want one no older than 2 months.


Why not just get your own vetting? Peace of mind.
 
all my vet certs i've ever gotten over here go into detail on the back of the form as to what the five stages are and they've all been by irish vets
 
Thanks - I agree with this and would have done my own vetting if the horse was for me. Unfortunately it's a new livery at the yard who I think has been duped or at best misled. The horse was bought from a dealer and it's turned into a raving monster having bitten and kicked the owner's teenage daughter several times now. They have gone past the 14 day return period (now into week 3) and I'm trying to help them find more reasons to send it back asap. In the horse's defence it is only 5 and recently imported but it's not suitable for an inexperienced child and novice mother and it's definitely not got a "wonderful temperament" - it barges to and from the field, cannot be lunged without attacking the lunger and even throws a fit when you put a rug on it.

The whole story is a disaster - the dealer who is well known should really have known better than to sell them this horse! The purchasers don't have a clue unfortunately - I would never have recommended they own a horse with their level of experience at present.
 
I doubt you can send it back, as their vetting really appears to be a soundness/eyes /wind and limb type one.
Best option is either you sort it out or ask the dealer to swap them for an older more sensible option.
If it's like any of the irish horses we've bought they tend not to have had much formal training at all, just ridden away, but ours have not been nasty tempered.
Are you sure they aren't feeding it too much as well?
What does the dealer say when you talk to him?
 
Hmm well in that case I dont suppose the vetting matters anyway because it sounds like a behavioural thing.
Or are they trying to find a physical reason so the dealer has to take it back?

What is the dealer saying?
 
The dealer warranted that the horse was of good temperament and that it had a recent 5 stage vetting. She was told about the horse's behavioural problems in week 2 and said that she would "extend the warranty" for a little longer if they wanted to exchange the horse. The owner decided last week to try to exchange the horse but was told by the dealer that she had nothing suitable therefore would only take the horse back to sell on the owner's behalf. In this case, if the horse behaved as badly in future then there might be come back against the owner and not the dealer. Ideally she wants to reject the horse as not fit for purpose and not as warranted but outside the 14 period that the dealer mentioned verbally to her. Unfortunately it's quite complicated in terms of the facts - definitely not legally straightforward and IMO should not have gone this far - they should have sent it back and insisted on either money back or different horse within a reasonable period. The owner I think has ranted at the dealer who ended up putting the phone down on her.

The horse is just green and bolshy and I am sure can be sorted out by experienced adults. He is not being fed a great deal and getting plenty of turn out - he's testing everyone out and tryig to be boss and they are just letting him get away with it because they don't know any better. There is a limit to how much one can intervene as you end up doing everything for them!
 
The sales vettings are fairly basic! If I ever buy at the sales I always have horse re vetted there (and a blood sample as well). You have option to have this done immediately. I bought a horse at Goresbridge (sales cert clean) - however after full vetting and scoping he failed.

I am no legal expert - but if horse is completely unsuitable - I don't think dealer can impose a 14 day time limit?
 
Hmm well I understand what you mean, before you know it you end up totally involved, not a good thing!

If they are that inexperienced then perhaps they should just try and sell the horse themselves, being honest so whoever gets him knows the score?
 
Hi,
A vetting certificate is usually only acceptable within 30 days of it being carried out by the Vet for Insurance purposes, If it is older than 30days then most insurance companies request another one done.
 
I feel really sorry for the owner's. I know sometimes its best not to get involved, but surely giving them some advise is better than someone getting injured. If they have a new vetting done here and state what the horse/pony was purchased for the vet can surely state that it is not suitable for the purpose in which it was purchased? (Don't shoot me down it's only a suggestion). A horse we were selling that we had told the prespective purchaser that we did not think the daughter would be able to deal with him (he was a right B). Insisted that he was going on livery and all she would have to do was ride him.

So the vet came with in 5 minutes she rang the owner in front of me and said he was not suitable for a 14 year old to handle and put this down on the vetting sheet?
 
Hi again!
I just replied to the bit about the length of time a vetting lasts then I went back and read the rest so here goes: My sister worked for an Equine Solicitors (Darby's Oxford) up until last Novemeber and whilst she was there I bought a horse from a Dealer which was not as described so I asked my sister to speak with one of the solicitors about my rights if any. The Solicitor basically told me that if the horse was sold by misrepresentation then regardless of the length of time (within reason) I had owned her I still had a case it just ment the longer I had her the harder the case would be but prove. She advised me to notify the dealer in writing immediately of all the things the Mare was doing. I had owned her 5 months before I sought legal advice. The other thing she pointed out was, regardless of what length of time a dealer offers on their warranty, you are legally covered for 3 months without any questionable problems for returning the horse should it not be as described on the advert.

Hope this helps
 
I should have also added that his bad manners were not down to us. We had tried with him for 8 months. The vet we had said he had probably been drugged when we viewed him, he was supposed to be a right plod. When we veiwed him he was. He turned into a right nasty animal at feed time. We did evenually sell him TO A DEALER. I was very unset when he went as I felt we'd failed him. But was (I've heard put into a riding school, to give him more work. Then sold on about 2 months later. 18 months later a friend went to view a horse that nearly took her little boys hand off and she said I know him it's (***) you've only had him no more than 16 months. The woman than said well I thought I'd had him 3 years???
I DO NOT TRUST ANYTHING PEOPLE SELLING HORSES SAYS EVEN IF I KNOW THEM. BUYS BE WARE IS MY SAYING NOW
 
Thanks for all your replies. It's tough buying and selling isn't it? I still think that the right thing for the owners (and especially the teenager who has found out the hard way that horses have to be handled correctly right from the start - it must have been awful having the horse hanging on to her ear with its teeth) is to send the horse back then see about getting an older established ex pony club animal and keeping it at full livery so they can learn how to handle him.

Thanks for the legal bits too - I believe that there was misrepresentation here and that's why I think the horse can go back. Getting the money out of the dealer may take some stiff solicitors letters, but she should realise her reputation is on the line here.
 
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