Is anyone else not entirely convinced by the Horse Hoarders plight?

[djlynwood]

Im totally amazed at the response generated in my area after this programme was aired.

Numerous people in my local area have set up accounts and asking for clothes, food etc.

We have a room at out yard which is packed to the brim with donations including a gas camping stove and generator.

Please dont think that Im not a charitable person, Im actually impressed that people have massed together to do this in this day and age with things how they are.

I wonder how many will still be doing this in a years time for him. I dont know what it is but something does not sit quite right with me.

 

[competitiondiva]

Have to say I didn't watch it, but the fact he had horses removed which a vet said was suffering, and he pleaded guilty to causing suffering on 6 counts, my sympathy wanes a little. OK he needs help, but his animal maintenance/care needs addressing which only a court can do. Glad it's now all in hand though, for him and the horses.

 

[WelshD]

If people want to donate I guess they will

My point of view is that we dont actually know that he doesn't have anything, he could have all these things in that house somewhere!

I'd think it best to concentrate on the horses. The chaps income should recover as the horse numbers decrease

I really think any stuff donated will just end up in piles in the house

I don't doubt the generosity of lots of people but they aren't going to be able to change him

Remember Mr Trebus? He had overwhelming public support but was ungrateful to people for meddling in his affairs

The chap would appear to own a potentially nice house with land that has value, no reason that can't be sold at the end if the day

If he were truely destitute i would feel differently

I have a mother with mental illness so I know it's not straightforward before anyone leaps on me!

 

[Shadow the Reindeer]

I would have thought, electric, gas, and water would be high up on his list.. a very 'big' clear out as well..

 

[Ibblebibble]

how many people who donate or raise money for children in need, comic relief , sports relief and all the others actually do anything other than at those specific times. We tend to pay attention when it's foremost in our minds (in our faces on TV), once the publicity dies most people move on to the next cause. The same will happen with clywd I'm sure, the 'novelty' will wear off and the next hard luck case will be thrust in our faces and some will feel moved enough to motivate others into action
Before Christmas a pub landlord disappeared with the locals saving fund that they had been putting into every week, 30k was missing and after the news went nationwide people donated money and the fund was replenished within a week, one annonymous donor apparently gave 10k.Some people feel good for helping other people, personal choice as to who they feel deserves their help, some will feel that Clywd does and others won't.

 

[Coldfeet!]

I saw an ad on preloved yesterday asking for donations, Dont get me wrong I feel bad for all concerned but what aggreived me was that the advertiser was putting it across that poor michelle has 22 or so of her own horses and helps the gent, the ad was asking for donations of rugs/headcollars etc well I am sorry but it is her choice to have 20 add horses of her own and she runs livery, she isnt a charity and she choses to own this many horses if their needs cannot be met then they need to find new homes, I think she is great to be helping out but I think the old chap is stuck in his ways and no amount of "help" will fundamentally change him, I just wish he had a better standard of living and I feel he does really care about the horses going without himself to feed them. Messy situation all round.

 

[webble]

Im totally amazed at the response generated in my area after this programme was aired.

Numerous people in my local area have set up accounts and asking for clothes, food etc.

We have a room at out yard which is packed to the brim with donations including a gas camping stove and generator.

Please dont think that Im not a charitable person, Im actually impressed that people have massed together to do this in this day and age with things how they are.

I wonder how many will still be doing this in a years time for him. I dont know what it is but something does not sit quite right with me.

Mine too and there are threads running on local forums ot help him. I have mixed feelings on the subject personally. Are you local to him too djlynwood?

 

[Flame_]

I'm convinced the world's gone nuts. Maybe if I start breeding random horses I can't afford and have no where to keep people will send me money?

 

[ISHmad]

Have read on FB this morning that a Paypal account has been set up via a non registered charity, because the registered Charity which Michelle has got apparently hasn't got a Paypal account. Like it takes long to set one up?

The donations will be used for Clwyd to 'KEEP HIS HORSES'. Eh? I'm horrified by this as thought the whole idea was they were being handled and sold to cover the cost of livery and associated horse keeping costs.

If he still wanted contact with horses he could help Michelle.

Up until I read that this morning I was sympathetic, now I'm not comfortable at all. And why would people send cash to an unregistered charity?

 

[micki]

I didnt see the program, only read what people have written on forums about it. I feel for him that he can't afford to look after the horses that he has properly as it sounds like he does love them but sometimes when you love an animal you have to sell it to do the best for it. It sounds like that is what he should be doing with what he has and just keep a few so he can afford to keep them properly. I dont expect other people to pay out to keep mine and that it is what is happening there now with him.

 

[djlynwood]

Mine too and there are threads running on local forums ot help him. I have mixed feelings on the subject personally. Are you local to him too djlynwood?

Im not local, on the Wirral but not too far from Wrexham where he is.

I am shocked to hear about FB pages being set up for paypal donations to an unregistered charity.

Everyone here is going Clwyd crazy and Im starting to be classed as an outcast if I say anything against it.

Glad to know Im not the only one.

 

[russianhorse]

WelshD - that isn't his house - its an abandoned farm house he found to squat in, so no money value for him in that property

 

[webble]

Im not local, on the Wirral but not too far from Wrexham where he is.

I am shocked to hear about FB pages being set up for paypal donations to an unregistered charity.

Everyone here is going Clwyd crazy and Im starting to be classed as an outcast if I say anything against it.

Glad to know Im not the only one.

Oooo me too, well Ellesmere Port so the bottom end. Yes I know excatly what you mean

 

[ISHmad]

Copied from the FB Page. See comment underneath re keeping the horses

t is with great pleasure and gratitude that Jaden Cornelious Fundraising has offered very kindly to accept Paypal donations for and on behalf of the Horse and Owner Help Center registered address:

18 FRIARSMEWS
BANGOR-ON- DEE
WREXHAM
WALES
LL13 0AX


The Horse and Owner Help Centre (registered company number 08306087) was founded and is run by Michelle Crowther. Its mission is to distribute assistance and financial help to horses and their owners such as Clwyd Davies and his equines.

Q&A:

Q: Who is JC Fundraising?

A: JCF is an independent group of volunteers who raise funds for charities, organisations and individuals in need

Q: Why not use the Horse and Owner Help Centre Paypal account?

A: As of yet a Paypal account has not been set up but this is in hand. Many people have requested a Paypal facility so in the interim JCF will collect any Paypal donations and a cheque will then be forwarded to the Horse and Owner Help Centre.

Q: Will Clwyd (or any other horse owner) get the funds personally?

A: All funds raised by way of Paypal donations through JCF will directly benefit Clwyd’s horses and others in the same situation as Clwyd. The owners will not personally gain from the money raised but they will be reassured that every effort will be given to help and support by way of providing feed, vets bills and other medical supplies etc for as long as the money is available.

Q: How can you donate?

A: Via the “our Causes” page on the JC Fundraising website www.jcfundraisi*ng.com/*our-causes scroll down to the photo of Clwyd and his horse.
Our Causes - Jaden Cornelious Fundraising
2 hours ago*·**·*Like*·*Share*·*Report
33 people like this.
Support for Clwyd Davies and his horses
Amazingly kind offer am off to make my donation
2 hours ago*·*Like*·*2
Support for Clwyd Davies and his horses
Can i just say...no one has to make a donation but long term care and funding is needed to provide Clwyd to be able to keep his horses, Michelle is building a good team around her to enable her to give support and aid to anyone suffering from poverty and hardship and your support is needed not just in the short term but for long term as well. For me personally i want to learn about that bond that Clwyd has with his horses, it was plain to see he has something very special So my financial support is set in stone now and long may it continue and lets all hope that channel 4 bring us a program about Clwyd and his lovely horses and THAT special bond (debs) x

 

[djlynwood]

The person on the Wirral who is organising and spreading the word has spoken to Michelle who told her that she needs to raise £400 to be able to register for charity status.

Does anyone know if you do need to pay this much to register as a charity?

 

[s4sugar]

no one has to make a donation but long term care and funding is needed to provide Clwyd to be able to keep his horses

OK just why does he "need" to keep his horses?

I could understand if money was to go towards gelding the entires but considering his age most of those horses can be expected to outlive him needing future rehoming and any reasonable person would be cutting back numbers (or not getting into his situation). I can think of far more effective uses for donations.

 

[Goldenstar]

I'm convinced the world's gone nuts. Maybe if I start breeding random horses I can't afford and have no where to keep people will send me money?

Worth a try but I would not advise it I'll help out and donate you some old freezers a cooker an old car and other assorted junk for your garden.

 

[horsesatemymoney]

if I had a spare tenner to donate, I'd rather give it to a kid's cancer charity. I'm not denying this guy needs some help, but I think it's via a gp , not monetary donations. one of the horses is up for 500 pounds not a lot and might not sell, but if he sells 20 that's 10k! I wonder if some people want to help because they see it as doing something against the rspca ? its very sad allround but I don't think giving him money to carry on will help....he needs the help and support of professional mental health workers or likely is he'll do this again in the future....he's a hoarder .

 

[djlynwood]

if I had a spare tenner to donate, I'd rather give it to a kid's cancer charity. I'm not denying this guy needs some help, but I think it's via a gp , not monetary donations. one of the horses is up for 500 pounds not a lot and might not sell, but if he sells 20 that's 10k! I wonder if some people want to help because they see it as doing something against the rspca ? its very sad allround but I don't think giving him money to carry on will help....he needs the help and support of professional mental health workers or likely is he'll do this again in the future....he's a hoarder .

Like this post. Totally agree.

 

[WelshD]

Thanks for clarifying that Russianhorse.

I think that actually makes me feel worse though! So he is a squatter living on someone else's land and accumulating horses

I can imagine the replies if someone posted on here to say they own a potentially valuable place that a squatter is living in!

 

[Cortez]

I see people saying "he's a hoarder" a lot, but actually I just think he's a breeder who has not been able or inclined to sell his horses. Various people have come on here saying they have purchased from him in the past - is it not just possible that with the numbers he has not been able to handle the young horses sufficiently to get them saleable? And the situation has spiralled from there. It is very easy to get out of control numbers wise, especially with gelding, worming, etc. The woman is helping him by handling the horses and getting them sold. The comment about him keeping the horses came from a member of the public, not from anyone associated with the operation.

 

[Archangel]

There is no fee for setting up a charity in fact if the annual income is under £5k a year you can still be a charity but registered with HMRC rather than the charity commission. However, yoiu will still need a governing document, charitable object(s), trustees so there is a cost involved in getting it all together, maybe she just picked £400 as a guesstimate.

I do know someone who lives like Clwyd. He sort of semi dosses in one of his brother's barns (my old feed room in fact). He doesn't have running water or a toilet/washing facilities. He could very easily sort it out but chooses not to. He is not mentally ill, he just chooses to opt out of life a bit. I think he lives in a pig sty but I would say he is happier and more relaxed than many people I know!

 

[ISHmad]

Cortez you are wrong there. The comment about him keeping the horses came from one of the Admins on that site!

 

[Star_Chaser]

I have to be honest at first I thought the best way to help this situation was to see about rehoming one of his horses I am looking and a youngster to be broken or foal or one of the old girls needing retirement would suit me down to the ground.

There are 20+ still with Clywd but none of these appear to still require rehoming and my attempts to find out have resulted in posts asking for details of those needing rehoming being removed. Michelle does have other horses but I do think it a little misleading that the generosity being shown by people is NOT clearly being used for horses that are in dire need of assistance within Clywds own herd but instead unless clearly marked is going to Michelle's rescue.

What I will not do is support financially or otherwise a breeder for anything dogs, cats, horses etc and at the end of the day if Clywd is in a more manageable situation with his herd and is retaining for breeding purposes what he has left then I am afraid for me beyond normal purchase of a horse I will not be handing over any cash. I would not pay to support anyone elses horse habit but I am happy to support a rescue (which I already do elsewhere). I do feel for Clywd he has obviously got a problem but it is not one that should be encouraged.

I did like the look of some of the horses and a few people have posted info of some of theirs none of which are for sale. He obviously breeds some nice stock and I hope that the support he is receiving allows him to have a more positive future.

 

[Star_Chaser]

I see people saying "he's a hoarder" a lot, but actually I just think he's a breeder who has not been able or inclined to sell his horses. Various people have come on here saying they have purchased from him in the past - is it not just possible that with the numbers he has not been able to handle the young horses sufficiently to get them saleable? And the situation has spiralled from there. It is very easy to get out of control numbers wise, especially with gelding, worming, etc. The woman is helping him by handling the horses and getting them sold. The comment about him keeping the horses came from a member of the public, not from anyone associated with the operation.

Agree with this. Good post although it was admin that told me that he was retaining his current level of stock. The only one available for sale is the one that Michelle originally purchased from him herself.

 

[FionaM12]

This is the power of television and the celebrity culture.

If someone had said they or a friend lived on a squalid squat full of junk and hazards, indiscriminately bred unwormed semi-feral horses which they sell from time to time to fund the operation and needed financial help can you imagine the response a week ago? Especially here?

One short very biased film (giving very few facts) on prime-time tv and the chap's a celebrity. I did watch the film and the emotional effect of it worked on me for a moment too. Yes I feel sorry for Clwyd, who looks like a rather lost soul with probable mental health issues. But he's a hoarder (whether or not he was once a reputable breeder) whose horses are at risk and not properly cared for.

 

[Patterdale]

Rebelrebel totally agree with that last statement (can't quote though).
My dads great uncle lived like that, just 'opting out' a bit as you put it. He was totally happy and relaxed with life.
Can't speculate on Clwyd's mental state as I don't know him but who's to say he's not choosing this lifestyle himself?
The bath for instance, he probably preferred to do it the eccentric way. I'm sure that Michelle would have let him use her shower or something if he'd wanted!

 

[Star_Chaser]

Have to admit I loved that bath set up! My friends an artist and lives a bit of a hobo lifestyle and I know he would love that bath!

 

[Patterdale]

Fiona agree with that sadly.
The film did upset me but I have a real weakness for lonely people and those with mental health issues. I just felt so desperately sorry for him.

There must be thousands of other people living like this and it makes me very sad.
But I certainly won't be sending money to fund his horse habit.

Michelle may be his guardian angel, but may not. My husbands first comment when she was selling his horses etc 'Crikey, she's no fool. Bet she won't be getting misty eyed when she's totting up the livery bill.'

But then again he's a cynic!

 

[Pipkin]

This is from someone who lives literally minutes away and has known him all their life

RE: Horse Hoarder TV Show -
Something that wasn't tackled on the programme -
they're not short of cash/donations -
Michelle sells them for between 300-800 quid a pop!! (sometimes more!!) regularly posts all over facebook asking for free feed/rugs/bedding/farriery/hay/mucking out... etcetc... I KNOW THIS BECAUSE I'VE BEEN UP THERE when she started taking them to sell, as the advert said - HOMES WANTED FOR RESCUE HORSES - me being me jumped up to help, only to be told i'd have to pay £400 for a 13.2 dapple grey un handled & un registered (& of questionable parentage) 4yo stallion !! I even got roped into helping catch a traditional colt she'd sold but needed gelding while i was up there viewing!! I'm not saying he should/shouldn't have horses - I'm saying that its NOT rescue, its a business partnership between the two of them using peoples goodwill & kind hearts to make them pay over the current market value for (in the most part) poor quality, un-registered stock!! (thats what p's me off!)
(Yeah I'll get a load of abuse for this - But its the god honest truth - what reason have I to lie?!)