Is bad riding cruel?

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Flicker

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I'm not talking unstylish riding (I'd be banned for life if it was, lol).

What I mean is the kind of bad riding that makes you wince: yanking the mouth, thumping down on the back, flappy legs with spurs all over the place, draw reins on all the time because the rider thinks that's what you need 'to get the head down'.

And if this all happens DURING a lesson, if it is cruel is the instructor culpable too?

Would be interested to know people's thoughts, really.
 
I wouldn't call it cruel in the same way that abuse and neglect are cruel but IMO it is certainly not a nice way to treat a horse! Unfortunately it's something you see far too often. :(

If this is happening during lessons I would think the instructor was at least partly to blame as any decent instructor would be removing the spurs + draw reins and working on the rider - aiming for a balanced, independant seat.
 
Yes, because these are all things that can be avoided/ aren't necessary.
And I would be disgusted by any instructor that would stand by and watch/ condone it without stopping it from happening.

Draw reins used incorrectly and in the wrong hands can cause serious damage.
Bad hands/ yanking etc would be extremely uncomfortable and painful for the horse, the same goes for heavy thumping in the saddle and overuse of spurs. All cause pain and discomfort and possible further damage, so yes, IMO cruel.
 
Is cruel, though I think not as bad as neglect etc. If the instructor has someone like that in a lesson then I think they should correct it. Though if it is a one off lesson then I think the instructor is bound to limit how many strips they rip off the rider! There is only so much you can work on in one lesson. If the rider is regularly like this in the instructors lesson then I think the instructor is more at fault.
 
kirstie said:
Yes, because these are all things that can be avoided/ aren't necessary.
And I would be disgusted by any instructor that would stand by and watch/ condone it without stopping it from happening.

Draw reins used incorrectly and in the wrong hands can cause serious damage.
Bad hands/ yanking etc would be extremely uncomfortable and painful for the horse, the same goes for heavy thumping in the saddle and overuse of spurs. All cause pain and discomfort and possible further damage, so yes, IMO cruel.

Ditto this.
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Yes, what you are describing is cruel.
It is probably a combination of ignorance and lack of skill and is entirely unintentional, but it is still cruel.
 
I am inclined to agree. I think it is cruel. Yes, not neglect / physical violence cruel, but cruel in the sense that the rider's wishes are put before the welfare and comfort of the animal.

I am also saddened that it happens as much as it does.

With regard to instructors - sometimes pupils want 'results' and letting them troll around on a horse with its nose strapped to its chest seems to be an easy way to get 'results' (or what the rider thinks is a result).

I must say, I am horrified to see instructors not only condoning these but actually telling their pupils to use them.

Poor horses. I always secretly wish that they'll just go 'bye bye' and ditch the rider, but I just don't think they've got the will left in them to do anything but blob around in a circle anymore... :(
 
There was an international horse behavoir & medicine conference held in Aus last year, one of the main topics was 'Is it cruel to inflict a begginer rider on a fellow sentient being (i.e. a horse)'.

I can't remeber the outcome of the debate but if you google it you might find something.

Personally I think it is cruel, I will give total novices the benefit of the doubt as we all have to learn sometime, but heaven help anyone who should know better! As for the instructors they should be ashamed, though sadly there are way to many of that school of thought round here.
 
I'll go against the grain here and say no, I don't think it is cruel, per se. For me, cruelty implies intention. I don't think many people deliberately set out to hurt their horses through bad riding, and poor riders rarely realise how bad they are, and what damage their actions are inflicting upon the horse. I do, however, think that it is cruelty on the part of an instructor (who should know better) to allow that kind of riding during a lesson.

I do feel that beginner riders ought to be taught the basics on the ground before being allowed on a horse, and starting on the lunge should be compulsory at riding schools. Unfortunately, as long as there are horses there will be bad riders :(.
 
Felicity_09 said:
There was an international horse behavoir & medicine conference held in Aus last year, one of the main topics was 'Is it cruel to inflict a begginer rider on a fellow sentient being (i.e. a horse)'.

I can't remeber the outcome of the debate but if you google it you might find something.

Personally I think it is cruel, I will give total novices the benefit of the doubt as we all have to learn sometime, but heaven help anyone who should know better! As for the instructors they should be ashamed, though sadly there are way to many of that school of thought round here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - I will google it, I bet it makes for very interesting reading!
 
Felicity_09 said:
There was an international horse behavoir & medicine conference held in Aus last year, one of the main topics was 'Is it cruel to inflict a begginer rider on a fellow sentient being (i.e. a horse)'.

I can't remeber the outcome of the debate but if you google it you might find something.

Personally I think it is cruel, I will give total novices the benefit of the doubt as we all have to learn sometime, but heaven help anyone who should know better! As for the instructors they should be ashamed, though sadly there are way to many of that school of thought round here.
Click to expand...

A link to the conference proceedings can be found here http://www.equitationscience.com/Sydney2009.html (I think this is the right one) but there doesn't seem to be a paper covering this topic precisely (if you find one let me know, I've only glanced through the contents) tho pre-conference literature did appear to suggest that it would be discussed. I am quite interested in this topic, as I have a very novicey friend who appears unable/unwilling to improve, and has had a very detrimental impact on the musculature of her horse.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the OP was talking about beginner riders when asking about draw reins being used to pin a horses head in, or the use of spurs.
I would think the same when about giving the horse a good yank in the mouth.

I think it is cruel anyway because the horse would be feeling pain, discomfort and possibly suffering damage... Whether it is intentional or not.
 
Felicity_09 said:
Personally I think it is cruel, I will give total novices the benefit of the doubt as we all have to learn sometime, but heaven help anyone who should know better! As for the instructors they should be ashamed, though sadly there are way to many of that school of thought round here.
Click to expand...

celia said:
I wouldn't call it cruel in the same way that abuse and neglect are cruel but IMO it is certainly not a nice way to treat a horse! Unfortunately it's something you see far too often. :(

If this is happening during lessons I would think the instructor was at least partly to blame as any decent instructor would be removing the spurs + draw reins and working on the rider - aiming for a balanced, independant seat.
Click to expand...

Ditto ^

Though I do give begginners the benefit of the doubt, I will suggest the kinder, gentler way of doing something, i.e. reminding a child to be gentle.
 
Flicker said:
I'm not talking unstylish riding (I'd be banned for life if it was, lol).

What I mean is the kind of bad riding that makes you wince: yanking the mouth, thumping down on the back, flappy legs with spurs all over the place, draw reins on all the time because the rider thinks that's what you need 'to get the head down'.

And if this all happens DURING a lesson, if it is cruel is the instructor culpable too?

Would be interested to know people's thoughts, really.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but does anyone else find this a bit of a stupid question??
 
Tifferss said:
I'm sorry but does anyone else find this a bit of a stupid question??
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No, but I think this is a slightly odd response. Don't you think that it's every rider's responsibility to learn to ride as well (and as sympathetically) as they can for the sake of their horse? Ignorance among non-beginners is an excuse, perhaps, but it's not a very good one IMO.
 
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