Is he a rig? Help? Sorry its turned out a bit long

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bbcrystal

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I know there are alot of experts here so just after a bit of help. I have owned Barnaby for about 18 months and in that time he has always been quite aggressive towards people, ie. threatening to bite, when punished retaliates more aggressively. If you approach him in the field he will run at you with ears back and teeth bared. When leading him he will try to bite your knees. I have got used to these things but last weekend he changed!
When I tried to pick up his back legs he lashed out and tried to bite at the same time and also tried to kick me when I was fastening his girth. I thought he was in pain so called the vet. She has given him a course of bute and rest for 10 days and then follow up with physiotherapy but she only said he "may" have pain in his lower back.
Someone suggested getting someone that knows horses inside out to look at him to see if its just another attitude problem or if he is in pain and without seeing him he said its a rig and he wouldn't keep it anywhere where there are children involved (I have a 7 year old). And I also got a report back that he had chased someone walking through the field. This guy also said that he will never get any better and thought it best to cut my losses and get rid.
In the 18 months I have had him I can barely get a trot and he has NEVER cantered properly.... not sure which way to turn.
Any ideas anyone? Thanks if you have managed to get through this.
 
I have a suspected rig and he can attack people sometimes in the field or strangers or just people he doesn't like looking over his stable door. He can't be lunged cos he turns in and runs at you and the lunge whip makes him rear and he can't be kept near any mares BUT to ride he is no problem at all, he is a brilliant jumping pony and a really fun ride.

Is barnaby turned out or stabled with mares? The aggressive behaviour fits a rig but i'm not sure about the trouble trotting and cantering, to me that would suggest pain. How old is he?

My pony was classified as dangerous with his last owner but he just wasn't happy with his living arrangements, is there anything you could change to treat him more like a stallion? I think there might be some supplemnts you can give to calm the hormones down but i'm not sure what they are.
 
Long reply sorry - My first impression would be that this horse has behavioural issues due to pain somewhere in his body. Has the bute had any effect on his behaviour since he has been on it? Sometimes this may not even touch the pain if this is the case, but may dull it depending on what is wrong. The second thing I would say is that if we are assuming this horse does have pain which makes him agressive, this in itself is not to be tolerated. You say you are used to his behaviour, but if my horse tried to bite or kick me he would get a firm "NO" and a smack. I think in my honest opinion that you have let him get away with things in the past, and you must not allow this to continue. My poor horse was stood with a compound fracture of his tibia waiting patiently to be PTS and he did not bite me, or show agression to me, and believe me he must have been in agony. Although you should have understanding and empathy towards your horse you still need to maintain boundarys and firm handling. He should not be allowed to kick out, or bite, there should be no excuse. I certainly believe this is a pain issue, and it would be interesting to see what the physio says. As for being a rig, there is a simple blood test your vet can do to see if he is, but there are two types of rig, a true rig which has testicles or testicular tissue that wasn't completely removed upon gelding, or a false rig: that is a horse that displays stallion tendencies even though he has not testicular tissue in him at all and his stallion behavoiur is what the experts call a 'learned behaviour'. Please by all means get your horse tested for being a rig by your vet, I went through this when horses in my horses field started getting their rugs ripped around the wither area and sides due to a horse mounted their geldings, but everyone thought it was mine as he displayed stalliony behaviour - he was cut late at 7. I was forced to keep him on box rest as he was not allowed out with the others and was too unhappy on his own in a paddock. I got him blood tested and he was negative for a true rig, but people presumed he was a false rig. One day I took him to a show and whilst we were out a horse in the field got badly mauled so it was found that it wasn't my horse. By this point I had the vet injecting him with a female hormone called Depo Provera (to stem stallion tendencies) which was unlicensed for use in horses and so I had to sign a disclaimer. It was simply a last resort as it meant my beautiful horse could 'be a horse' and go out with his friends, who were led past his stable every morning on their way out to the field. He would stand and watch them from his stable - it really ate away at me. The whole thing broke my heart, I used to sit for hours watching him in the field with the others before I was told to take him out with my camcorder at the ready, but never managed to see any horses play up whilst I was there but I knew in my heart it wasn't him. Sadly a few months after moving yards he dropped down dead from a suspected heart attack whilst being turned out. I often wonder if it was the drug that was to blame. Please don't give your horse this drug, no matter how much pressure you feel under. Get the physio out to see him and remember that his reactions may well be as a 'cry for help' as it is the only way he can try to make you understand that he hurts. I feel very annoyed that this so called 'expert' advised you to get rid as you put it. I presume by this he means sell the horse. This is a problem that needs sorting out, and if it cannot be sorted out the horse will need to be humanely destroyed. It is totally unfair on the horse to try to sell it on, he would be passed from pillar to post and treated appallingly by people who use brute force and ignorance instead of getting to the route cause of his behaviour. Well done for coming on this forum, and investigating your horses behaviour. I wish you luck and if you want to know more please PM me. X
 
We have a rig on our yard, but tbh he never shows any riggy behaviour unless confronted with a mare. The behaviour does tally with some reports of how rigs behave. I think the person was very quick to judge about him being a rig, and if you are worried about this you can get him tested, although I am often told by vets that rigs are very often false and sometimes the problem is behavioural rather than hormonal or anything.

You could try monk's pepper- it is supposed to calm hormones and is not a chemical thing so is more easily fed and can be cheaper. I think feedmark stock it- but its not called monk's pepper! [called chastetree berry]

I think you would be better getting him tested to see if he is a rig, and go from there; as ell1085 said, not all of what you describe is typical of a rig and perhaps there is some pain somewhere.

Hope you find a solution
 
I have a horse who I got checked to make sure he wasn't a rig and he's not but he likes the ladies a little too much. However he is never aggressive and that makes me think there is more going on with your horse than being a ' rig'. I would get someone experienced too check him over.
 
I know of a pony rig. He was always sweet natured, a little cheeky at times but always well mannered even around mares. I think there is some underlying problem with your horse and suggest he is checked by a vet before he does some damage to you or himself or worse a child.
 
Thanks for your replies... I wouldn't consider selling him on as he is now, unlike the woman who sold him to me, I wouldn't be able to live with myself! The vet is ringing me at the end of this week and then we go down the physio route... I have always felt that there was something "not quite right". I will also get the rig test done and see what that shows up if anything. Will let you know the results. Thanks again.
 
Oh my god you could be describing my cob, he is exactly the same (or was). When I first had him I couldn't trot a 20 metre circle and a canter in the school was something I could just dream about (although he would quite happily canter across the beach). The first time he came for me was when I went into his field to put a rug on as it started to rain, ears flat back, teeth bared and he chased me. I was so shocked I just dropped the rug and ran.

Eventually I got so fed up with this that I entered his field with a lunge whip (not to beat him up, just to protect myself with) and I ended up chasing him around and saw him displaying some of the behaviours I remembered Monty Roberts talking about in his join up and immediately tried to remember what he did and ended up doing some sort of join up with him. That was when we started our long road of mutual understanding...

Vet said he could be a rig, displayed some riggish behaviour (pooing in one place, more aggressive with women - apparently they can smell our hormones????) etc, etc but I didn't want the test done, he said it was quite expensive and to be honest would only tell me what we suspected so I didn't think it was worth the money. There was nothing physically wrong with him after spending large amounts of money on vets, physio's and chiropractors. *Touch wood* I've never had a day of lameness from him or had to get the vet out for anything other than jabs.

Now I will not tolerate ANY misbehaving from him whatsoever, whether it's trying to bite me when I'm picking up feet, cow kicking when I'd doing up the girth, he gets a sharp "no" the first time and second time he will get a sharp slap on the shoulder and usually that works.

He's 99% of the time OK with me now but he is still a nightmare with strangers, if he senses they are scared of him he will take the mick and you won't be able to do anything with him at all. Give an inch and he'll take a mile. I have a 14 year old girl which helps look after and rides him and he is getting better with her but she knows what behaviour to look out for and is never allowed there on her own.

With regard to the riding, I struggled for about 3 years with him, not getting anywhere at all so gave up and then did most of my schooling on the common, beach and out hacking but now the 14 year old girl is having lessons with a new instructor to the area and for the first time in the 6 years I've had him we can canter around a dressage arena for however long we want to and get him into canter pretty much as soon as you ask. This was done mainly by the instructor assisting with a lunge whip and a few really big massive pony club type "kicks".

I have a 9 year old daughter and funnily enough he's NEVER been aggressive towards her at all (not that she goes anywhere near him alone) but he doesn't seem to be intimidated by children.

Good luck with your horse, please keep us up to date and if you want to PM with any questions then please do so!

PF
 
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