Is it ever right to try and persuade someone to put their horse down..?

JDChaser

JDChaser

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Sorry, this may be long and rambling...


There's a horse kept at the yard where I keep my horses, whom i've know for about 5 years. The horse is in its early to mid 30s by now, and is quite deaf and I believe partially sighted too. She used to be pretty sprightly (dragging me around when I turned her out!) but over the last couple of years she's like a zombie. Her owner has had some troubles in her life recently and I know the stables is like a safeplace to her. Although she's not interested in riding anymore, despite offers from other horseowners, her mare has been her hers for over 20 years and she enjoys looking after her and pampering her.

Over the last say... 5 or 6 weeks, the horse has been found in her field unable to get to her feet several times. People have had to help drag her up and shes got cuts all over her from thrashing about. Everytime though, by the time the vet and her owner has arrived, she's managed to struggle to her feet and looks perfectly normal once standing. A few of us who have witnessed these episodes have explained fully to the vet and owner. The owner just says things along the lines of 'Oh well, she's sorted herself out now!' and 'I know how she feels - i struggle to stand up these days too without some grunting and groaning'.

Now, the problem is as I explained the owner is quite lonely and depressed I think and she's also pretty ditzy and I can see her burying her head in the sand over her horse's health for a long time... The mare has been losing weight this year. She used to hold it pretty well even in winter, but didn't come out of this winter at all well and isn't picking up even on the summer grass. Like I said before she's like a zombie horse and IF she was mine then i'd be putting her to sleep sooner rather than later.

A couple of other liveries who've also found the mare whilst she's been lying in the field unable to stand have approached me and quietly asked if they thought the owner will be having the mare put to sleep. They're new liveries and don't know the owner as well as I do, hence why they don't feel they can talk to her. My dilemma is that they think I should have a chat with the owner, and even try and persuade her that the mare's time has come...

Now, is that an option? Or is it none of our business whatsoever? I really don't know what to do. Any suggestions and opinions welcome, even the inevitable horrible ones! ;)

X
 
I think "persuade" is the wrong word.... It might be the right thing to have a chat with her (do you know her well enough for a cup of tea?). Suggest maybe her horse is doing as well this year as previously and that it might be heading that way?
 
What a horrible situation. And I've been there myself. I was suffering from severe depression when my mare was ill and needing to be pts. Luckily I managed to see through it.

I would say if she respects your opinion, then tell her carefully. My YO and my farrier, both of whom I have a lot of respect for, said 'we can try such and such, but perhaps its time to consider letting her go' which was enough to put it in my mind. But if the vets been blunt with her that may not work.

The other thing, if you are close enough, would be to suggest she got medical help. It took a person at the stables to persuade me to go to the doctor. Best decision I ever made for myself. And doing that in turn made doing the right thing by my horse a whole lot easier to do, when the time came.
 
Hey, thanks for your replies.

The reason i said 'persuade' is because we've already had kind of chats with her. When we've all had to ring her and vet to come out, we've made it quite obvious of our shock and how sorry we feel for the mare. Maybe a more direct, sit down of a cup of tea chat will be better? I don't want to make her sound like an awful owner, because she isnt, i can't even imagine having to put down a horse you've had for 20 years when you haven't really got much else to look forward to. :o

MissSBird I think she is already on anti-depressents of some kind and has been to the Doctors. She's not wandering around looking miserable or anything and she has a job and a kid, but I just worry about what effect losing the horse could have on her :(

x
 
what a horrible situation, it has happened at my yard also similarly. owner wasnt depressed tho, her horse was old, was managing to get up but lost weight and wasnt gaining even with all the feed possible, her teeth were bad but her owner couldnt see there was no real hope of improving her. with gentle persuasion the idea was put in her mind that it may be best for her to be at peace, and within a couple of weeks she had come to terms with it and had her mare put down after she had enjoyed a lovely summer before the winter was coming and the hard time for her was coming.
It is hard but she will hopefully see that its in the ponies best interests and possibly she needs to see the mare struggle rather than just be told about it, then she may be able to tell that it is unfortunately that time in the horses life to let her be at peace. Good luck to you.
 
I've have seen something similar with a horse in its mid-thirties and a depressed owner who was totally dependant on caring for her horse. It was a small, close yard and all of us at times spoke to her about the quality of her horse’s life and whether she should call it a day. She was unable to hear us; she wasn’t being intentionally cruel but her own agenda made it impossible to see what was happening. Sadly the horse collapsed in the field, the vet was called but by the time the owner arrived the horse was on its feet again and although the vet tried to convince the owner that he should be pts it didn't happen. About fours hours later he collapsed again, this time the owner was there and realized that she had to do something, the poor horse was pts in the field on a beautiful sunny evening (first warm spring day of that year). It was so sad that I don't think that the memory will ever go.

All I can say is that unless the owner is willing to hear she won't be able to do anything unless, like this sad situation she is forced into it. However I know that in this case as everyone had spoken to the owner she was aware of all the support she had and this helped after the event.
 
I would say, have a gentle but straight chat with her about it. You can't make her take that decision and you shouldn't feel guilty if she won't - you can but try.

Also, I would maybe try to help her by very tactfully talking about another horse for her, maybe a rescue from a charity? One that was ok (as in not hugely messed up or dreadfully broken), but that would appreciate the tlc that she could give and be a little project for her - maybe an older retired horse or even at the other end of the scale, a youngster that she could bring on. If she's not fussed about riding she could find one that would be a companion to the other horses and that she could do inhand things with. That might help to ease the loss for her by giving her something to do, and give her another creature that needs her to care for it.
 
JDChaser said:
MissSBird I think she is already on anti-depressents of some kind and has been to the Doctors. She's not wandering around looking miserable or anything and she has a job and a kid, but I just worry about what effect losing the horse could have on her :(

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I'm sorry, I feel for you but you should worry about the mare, not how her owner would feel; that should have nothing to do with it although I know it's hard to separate the two.
The mare should be the priority; it's a shame the owner can't or won't see that the time has come. I suppose, like a lot of people that have oldies/sick/lame and so on, she would like it to gently fade away in her sleep so they do not have to make an actual decision but it's taken for them. Perhaps the vet, next time it happens can actually put his foot down and insist she's realistic for the sake of the pony.
I don't envy you at all, I'm sorry, but what does she think would happen if none of you liveries were there to help the mare when she's down, does she ever see the mare down herself and realise how hard it is for the poor old girl?
 
No I think there is never a time to persuade an owner to have a horse put down. This has to be something that only the owner can decide as the owner is the one who has to live with that decision. The only times I think someone else can make that decision is in an emergency situation where someone else takes control and makes the decision in the absence of the owner, or if authorities take the horse into their care and make the decision for the owner. All you can do as a bystander is to have unbiased talks with the owner about the horse.
 
So an unbiased talk, as apposed (sp?) to a more direct talk? I will have a chat with her I just can't think how to word things?!

Thanks for your replies everyone.
 
JDChaser said:
So an unbiased talk, as apposed (sp?) to a more direct talk? I will have a chat with her I just can't think how to word things?!

Thanks for your replies everyone.
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I normally find it best to speak to someone the way I'd want to be spoken to if I were that person. Just be kind, make sure she doesn't feel like you are in any way attacking her or accusing her of being a bad owner or being silly or anything like that. She might be feeling a bit sensitive about it all, so you'll have to be careful of that.

Have you ever been in the position of having an oldie PTS? You could maybe talk about how sad a time that was, but how glad you were that you did it in the end because you could see the horse going downhill and how although it was such a hard decision you were glad that you made it.
 
I'm gathering from the post that you are not yourself the YO? I think this sort of thing would best be approached from the YO's perspective. I agree with sitting down gently with the horse's owner and discussing the condition of the mare. One of things that I would discuss if I were the owner of the facility is the burden this is placing on the staff. That, as well as an honest discussion of the horse's difficulties, might nudge her in what seems to be the most compassionate direction.

Hard situation. Some people find it more difficult than others to let go.
 
Thanks Spudlet, definitely food for thought.

baymareb no im not the YO, just another livery. The problem is that the YO is just a farmer (its a solely DIY yard) and isn't exactly, er, nice. :rolleyes: I do wonder whether someone else on the yard would be better at speaking to her than me, but I don't want it to be someone who hasn't found the mare/rang the vet etc, as then she might think we've all been talking about it behind her back. All rather delicate :rolleyes:
 
Once a local horse, owned by someone I only knew slightly had reached the very old/thin/generally sad looking stage. I didn't feel able to discuss the situation with the owner so had a word anonomously with the RSPCA saying that I thought the owner, purely through her attachment to the horse, not out of any malice or lack of care, was failing to do what in my opinion was best for the horse. About a week later the horse had been pts. I can see an RSPCA visit could be upsetting, and a lot would hang on the RSPCA inspector, but it could be one option if you (as you obviously do, and I did) genuinely believe the horse is suffering.
 
Does anyone share vet visits or the same vet as the lady? It might be an idea to have a quiet word with the vet if you know him/her well enough, get his/her opinion and then have a quiet chat with the lady.
 
Yes, I think sometimes it is necessary - either a lack of knoweldge on the owner's part, or that they do their best ostrich impression and ignore it. There are some owners who would much rather have the YO say 'this is what needs to happen' and have the burden of making the decision taken from them - they know in their hearts it is right, just don't want to make the call. Others just need to talk it over. I would say something if it were me - and I know that I would because I have been in the same situation. I was pretty direct (he was that sort of a chap) and he was relieved I was saying it needed to happen, and I offered to be there if he couldn't so the horse would have a friendly face around. The horse couldn't get up properly, and I pointed out that as a herd animal that made him feel very vulnerable (even tho there were no lions) and the stress was not fair to him, when the other horses ran to the other side of the field he was visibly distressed, and that is no life for an animal. Added to that, what if he got stuck down after evening checks, he would be stuck until we did morning yards, so a good few hours, and that wasn't fair either. He understood, and we had the vet out the following day.
 
Next time the horse is found unable to get up without help, LEAVE her alone, ring the vet and owner and make sure that the owner sees the horse struggle. This is the only way she will appreciate the full extent of the problem. I know it sounds unfeeling but it is the best course of action for the horse in the long run.
 
The problem is I think a lot of the responses are purely concentrating on the horse - you have already said that the owner is ill herself and the wrong approach could end up backfiring badly for both horse AND owner. If the owner is depressed or using the horse to fill up a big gap in her life then if you are perceived to be taking away that crutch you might not get the response you want. Also, if she is so attached to the horse after 20 years, then even suggesting she finds something else to care for might not come across very well. So, deep breathe. First of all, do you know if the owner is clinically depressed or are you using that as a term to describe her sadness? If its the former I would really try to get some professionial advice on the best way to help, if its the latter then maybe a nice but assumptive conversation along the lines of "when" not "if" will get her thinking along the right lines. That way you give her control but set her thinking that this is going to have to happen. If and when the time looks right, then maybe you could suggest she could care for another horse but we all know that suggesting a replacement is emotive and can be taken the wrong way.. Good luck, you are a really good friend to care to try to do something about this...
 
JDC - what a horrible situation :(

Perhaps when you get a chance to talk to the owner that you could try the approach that once the pony is pts its gone, ie it won't being looking down wishing it had had another two months to live, be unhappy or sad etc - its purely the owner that has to deal with the grief. The pony will feel no more.

You could also try the approach that the owner should be proud of herself to have her pony put down before she suffers as this really is the kindest act that we, as owners, can do for our animals, before they suffer. Better a month too early than a day too late, etc.

If she succombs to the idea then perhaps help her to think about planting a tree in the pony's memory - anything to keep her active and something to look forward to.

Like I say, a really horrible situation but also awful for you and the other liveries to see this pony suffer :(
 
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