Is it me or him?

[Miss Tipps]

I think I'm maybe just in need of a little support here rather than any firm solutions, but I certainly need a 2nd or 3rd opinion.

I just bought a new horse last week after quite a few years without - he's 16.2hh IDxTB, 10 and probably been a little bit too indulged by his previous owner, with not a lot of quality schooling.

He seemed a quiet ride when we tried him out and for the first 3-4 days after he arrived he was the same. Then, for no apparent reason, he tanked off with my daughter in the school. She's not a super experienced rider but she's a very quiet rider and certainly gave him no cause to do it. Since then its been an off and on thing - I've been riding him since then - one day he's fine, the next day he has a fit in his head and just tanks off in the school. Yesterday was the worst, he was completely immune to my hands. I couldn't turn him, he would just yank his head the opposite way and pull the reins through my hands. I'm only 5'5", but I weigh over 9 stone and I'm pretty strong. In the end I just had to let him run it out - thanking everything holy that there was no one else in the outdoor school at the time.

I'm riding him in a french link Fulmer and he also came with a Dutch gag which they apparently used to jump him in and which is what he was in when we tried him out.

He does need quite a bit of schooling to refresh his memory and I just don't know whether to try him in the Dutch gag, or another bit, or stop focusing on the bit because I should be doing something else.

Sorry for the long post, but any advice welcome.

Thanks

Clare

 

[Tia]

If all he does is tank off with you then perhaps something as simple as changing his bit, will settle him.

If after trying many other things (vet/saddle/dentist checks) and he doesn't turn around then I would sell him and buy something more suitable. I don't believe in flogging a dead horse....better off cutting your losses.

Good luck!

 

[Stella]

I would use the 3 ring for now. He already knows that he can do this, but you don't want it to become any more established that it is (I'm wondering if the previous owner knows he does this

). I would also arrange ASAP for a physio, dentist and saddler to check things over and I'd do lots of groundwork with him so that he learns to respect you on the ground and develop the relationship between you.

Certainly, it doesn't sound as if you are doing anything wrong anyway.

 

[dixie]

Get rid of the french link, it is of no use to a bolting horse, whether schooled or not. I am wondering why a fulmer too - could be that he's done this before and it's easier to turn him?

I would also use the 3 ring for now, there is a reason this was being used on him. See if you can break the habit, it could be he is trying you out.

You can always go back to a softer bit when you know each other more, but don't risk your safety.

Personally I would get my trainer (who isvery experienced) to sit on him a few times to see if there is a problem and whether it can be schooled out of him.

Perhaps also speak to the previous owner to see if they've had the problem before.

Best of luck, it's exciting having a new horse but can be nerve racking too!

 

[eohippus]

personally I would start him from scratch and train him to your preferences rather than try and deal with old habits that you cannot put your finger on the reasons.
Because of his age and fitness, you may not need to go back to real basics, but just some basic training to reinforce what you are wanting from him.
hope this helps
Dawn

 

[SillyMare]

Assuming you have ruled out back / teeth / saddle etc.

You don't say what he is eating - could that be relevant?

My view would be straight back to basics too but introducing some firm ground rules, sticking to them all the time and being as assertive as need be.

Work on establishing transitions between halt / walk / trot taking absolutely no rubbish from him. If necessary use the stronger bit - he is 10 - he won't come to any harm. Don't go to canter until you are 100% in charge, he is listening and you have nice sharp transitions.

Try to work out what the signs are that he is about to run away and distract him immediately with a small circle or a transition.

If it is an established habit then it may be very difficult to break. You may also find that he relapses into his old ways fairly readily when you get him sorted out.

 

[Pasha]

What are you feeding him? Have you changed what the previous owner's were giving him?

Also, is there a pattern to this behaviour i.e. does he do it after so many minutes, when performing certain movements, in a particular part of the school or is it completely random?

I personally believe horses need time to settle in and adjust - being sold is a huge and traumatic thing for them to deal with

 

[Happytohack]

[ QUOTE ]

I personally believe horses need time to settle in and adjust - being sold is a huge and traumatic thing for them to deal with

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't agree more - it is very early days in his new home. Has he been mainly hacked out rather than schooled. Perhaps you could incorporate hacking with a little bit of schooling while he settles in. Definitely have his teeth, back etc. checked. Turn him out as much as possible and don't feed him anything remotely heating. Stick with the 3 ring, so at least you should have some brakes. If it turns out he isn't what you want, sell him sooner rather than later.

 

[1928sky]

I think you have probably got to the trying it on stage that all new horses go through! Some are just quiet when you get them until they've found their feet and then they decide to test how much they can get away with. Its important just to keep your confidence (easier said than done) and work through it- second the schooling advice from silly mare. Make sure he gets lots of turn out and no heating feeds. I would probably be cautious about hacking out until you have control because its the last thing you want is to knock your confidence if he trys to run off with you- if you do make sure it is with very sensible company. Hope it turns out ok and that you are soon enjoying your new horse.

 

[serena2005]

i totally agree with most things that have been said. do all the basic's teeth, back etc etc. also give him a bit longer for the 2 of you to get to know each other, the horse i was riding was perfect at home, then when i moved him it took about 3 months for him to settle, and stop throwing everyone off!!

the other thing id try is when he tanks off push him and when he wants to slow down push him even harder, if the bugger wants to tank off then make him carry on when he wants to stop, if that dont work then look at your tack. it can take a while for a horse to settle to a new bit, i was thinking of changing my bit as he started taking off after jumps, i added a martingale and i have the added bit of control i needed.

maybe lunge him before you get on to let him blow off a bit of steam. and play with him in hand so you build up your trust.

good luck and remember take your time

 

[Miss Tipps]

Thanks everyone for all of your advice and suggestions and let me see if I can fill in any blanks.

* He has a record of having his teeth checked quite recently, so I'm not ruling it out but it seems unlikely.

* My first thought was his back and the saddle, and I will get it checked if nothing else becomes apparent, but the fact that he only misbehaves on some days and not others makes me question whether this can be the problem.

* I was told he was being fed on Alfa-A and pasture mix with a spot of sugar beet, so thats what I started off on. Then someone advised against the Alfa-A because it can be quite heating, so now we're just back to the pasture mix for the moment with Speedibeet.

* I rode him last night in the gag but it just felt awful and he didn't really behave any better, just seemed uncomfortable and stuck his nose in the air (although part of that could have been because of my apprehensiveness aswell).

* Emailed his previous owner who said he'd never done this before.

So, where to go now. My instructor is going to do some schooling with him and in the meantime I want to try and find a bit to ride him in which at least means I feel confident I have some brakes if he loses it. Was reading about a Sweet Iron Copper Tom Thumb and it sounded like it might be an option. Any thoughts?

Thanks again guys

clare

 

[the watcher]

If you are going to cut anything in his food I would have gone for cutting the pasture mix and still feeding Alfa -A and sugarbeet (try speedibeet)

 

[Stella]

I don't want to overload you with suggestions, I know that can make things more difficult. But your friend is right about Alpha A, it is like rocket fuel to some horses, but so is pasture mix

and occasionally Sugar beet! Any kind of mix (however non-heating its described) can set some horses off and the molasses in regular sugar beat (as opposed to speedibeet) does it to some horses. The safest, healthiest diet for any horse is one largely of fibre. So ad lib hay or hayledge (though some are hyper from the extra protein in hayledge) and a fibre feed like Badminton Fibre nuggets or Dodson and Horrall Safe and Sound (designed for Laminitics but only because its low in protein and sugar which is better for any horse. Fibre nuggets or nuts in other makes, keep weight on perfectly well and if they need a bit extra, oil will give them condition (and a lovely looking coat) without the fiz. I prefer Lindseed oil rather than Cod Liver oil, but good results come from both. I have heard that for some reason Soya oil can be heating, but I don't know why.

Good luck with things. I feel for you, I really do and I agree with the other poster, if it doesn't improve and you fear that you made a mistake buying him, sell him sooner than later. Hanging on when we know in our heart that its wrong tends to just bring unhappiness