Is it really okay.....?

[Spyda]

......for a horse to be left to shiver with the cold?

I've read comments on here to the effect that shivering doesn't mean a horse is too cold; because it's a natural way of dealing with the cold.

Hmmm... I too get can get goose-pimples and shiver with the cold. And, that too, is my body's way of trying to warm me up, but I cannot say it is comfortable or something I would want to be forced to endure for very long. I might not have the winter coat of a horse but shivering does mean the body is outside of its normal comfort zone.

Why is it considered perfectly okay by some, for a horse to be left outside with a starring coat and shivering with cold, in wind and rain?

 

[WhiteHorseWendy]

I'm a beliver in letting horses be horses, but only my New Forest is unrugged now, I'd hate to think that any of them were cold.

 

[soph21]

I think it is OK for them to shiver as thats their way of keeping warm, but if I saw one of mine shiver I would cry lol!
And whip a fleece and a TO rug on!

Its not nice to see a horse shivering!

 

[Evil_Cookie]

The difference is, when we shiver, we can move inside or put on a coat, we've taken that from liberty from our horses, by clipping them or rugging them, so they can't regulate their own temperature by growing a thick coat and regulating the angle of the hairs to trap air. So no I don't think horses should be left shivering, maybe the people who said that didn't mean it in the context that you've put it?-

 

[Ottinmeg]

i know of someone (who is totally clueless and ive mentioned them before ) who has clipped there mare out, thrown it out with no rug and give it one pad of hay of a night when its in its stable and all because they want it to lose weight..

 

[Spyda]

[ QUOTE ]
i know of someone (who is totally clueless and ive mentioned them before ) who has clipped there mare out, thrown it out with no rug

[/ QUOTE ]

That's awful.

No - I mean, those people who turn, for example, youngsters out without rugs on all winter. We've one at our place, a 2 year old WXxTB, which is turned out with mine. Mine is a yealing and rugged in a medium weight Rambo Supreme with stable rug underneath. The paddock has no trees nor hedging for them to shelter behind, and over looks cliffs out to sea. It's absolutely freezing when the wind starts up. Other horse is out there 24/7 in all weathers, shivering and desperate at times. ATM I'm putting out half a bale of hay a day for them to share, as well as giving my yearling a hard feed of stud balancer and yearling cubes, as 2 year old gets nothing. I'm leaving at the end of this week and pity the poor horse I am leaving behind.

 

[Tia]

The horse will most likely be absolutely fine. It already has a staring coat, this will trap the hot air, which a horse cannot do if it is rugged. Shivering is generally the next response and it starts off chain reactions within the brain and the endocrine system. Initially there is a short term release of hormones which accounts for the shivering, however when horses live in seriously cold temperatures, like where I live, the body regulates itself and produces long term control; hence upping the hormones released within the body over a long stretch of time. A little bit like us turning our thermostats up in our houses. Once the horse is in-tune with the average temperature his body will monitor this correctly and he will no longer be cold, however to sustain this over lengthy periods of time the horse must be fed energy producing food (ad lib hay is perfect) otherwise it will start to drop some weight.

I took a photo of my yearlings yesterday. It was only -5 yesterday however today it is -15 actual but with a windchill factor of -25 (so darned cold!!). All of my yearlings are toasty warm every time I have been out to check on them today.

 

[Coffee_Bean]

Tia- I'm really glad whenever you post- seeing your yearlings perfectly fluffy and happy in -25 temperatures, stuffing themselves with hay is really nice to see.

It must be so much better than the poor sod who has 1kg of rugs on his back, mentioned in the other post, in only -4 temperatures!!!!

 

[Tia]

It's a British illness I'm afraid ... I used to be similar when I lived in England and just followed the crowd.

Nowadays I am far more informed - I had to be, moving to this country scared the bejesus out of me for a little while, Lol!! When I first moved here, I was the ONLY person I knew who rugged their horses in this area. All horses I ever saw (TBs, WBs, Arabs, QHs etc) had no rugs on them. I admit I thought this was awful initially, however time and far more research on the subject has taught me that rugs are not the b-all and end-all; and to be honest most of the horses who live here on my farm do not NEED rugs, I simply use them for the horses who are ridden frequently, to keep them dry and snow/ice free. I have a couple who are susceptible to rainscald, so again I do rug them. The majority of the horses on my farm live in M/W rugs, a handful live in H/Ws and the old ones have a stable rug underneath their M/W rugs on, just as a safety measure to keep their weight up.

Now some people will say, oh yes but it is a drier climate over there. Not really in the grand scheme of things; no we don't have the damp once the temperatures get below -10, however if people have never experienced -25, let alone -40 then they can't have any concept about just HOW cold that is ... and dampness becomes VERY irrelevant then when your fingertips are literally on the point of dying.

Cold is cold - it's all relative though, and horses are very capable of dealing with this providing they are given the food to produce the correct energy.

 

[Lulup]

I don't think there's really any need for that - this forum is here for people to share experience and opinions and I don't expect to be openly criticised (referring to my horse as a poor sod) for expressing my opinions - freedom of speech still existed last time I checked. Nowhere in the post I answered did it state that I should only reply if my views did not concur with yours.

There are people on here who feel that it is ok to have their horses shivering with cold and others who feel that horses should be kept warm and comfortable by 'man made' methods, in line with their predominantly 'man made' lifestyle but at the end of the day it is a discussion with everybody able to add their opinion - we will all no doubt continue to do what we personally feel is best for individual horses.

 

[Bay_Beasty]

If a horse is looking poor and shivers in the cold, then all the food you are feeding him is used keeping him warm and not putting the weight back on. If he is looking good and got a good layer of fat over his ribs, neck and bottom then he may b ok with no rug, though if I saw him shivering often I would put on a rug. But most young horses grow nice thick coats, even TB if you leave them well alone.

 

[Natassia]

I hate to see horses shivering, but I think that whether you rug or not, and what rugs you choose to use should totally depend on your horse and the conditions that your horse is living in. I agree with people in the UK who clip their horses and may layer 2 rugs to keep their horse warm (however I personally think more than 2 or 3 is excessive and too heavy); and I also agree with what Tia does. As long as the horse is happy and healthy and adapted to the weather conditions, whether thats by growing a thick coat or by wearing rugs, thats the important thing.
But what annoys me is when a clipped horse that is used to wearing rugs is left tied up without a rug on before/after being exercised while the owner has a chat/mucks out, and is standing there cold - that is just thoughtless.

 

[Tinypony]

Obviously if you clip a horse you have removed it's natural protection and it might need some help. Ditto if you have inhibited it's ability to grow a coat by over-rugging for example. However, there are many hairy native-types getting put out every day in turnout rugs that are simply not needed, and it is worse for a horse to be too hot than to cold - so my vet tells me. Youngsters, (not just natives, TB's and Arab's too) if you don't wrap them up they grow good coats and thrive. If it rains or is windy then I'd hope anyone with horses out would have allowed them some shelter to get out of the worst of it. This is a link to a very long topic, but it's really worth reading because it explains very clearly how horses deal with the cold. And why, just because we need to put layers on when it gets colder, it doesn't follow that our horses need the same.

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/2425945/an/0/page/0#2425945

 

[kickandshout]

each to their own.
every horse is different !
okay fair enough I would definitely want to rug up a shivering horse in exactly the same way i would want to put another layer on if i was shivering.

calm down the summer will soon be here and then we can moan about the flies again !!!

 

[Lulup]

I have read the contents of the thread you posted a link to and I agree with it. If my horse lived out, unclipped and in a reasonably natural state then she would be unrugged (and in fact my other horse who is out to grass permanently due to unsoundness lives in a herd situation on ample grazing with access to large barn and ad lib hay with NO RUG!)but as she is actually fully clipped and stabled her needs are vastly different because I have effectively 'disabled' her ability to deal with freezing conditions! Right, that is my last word!

 

[henryhorn]

I have around 35 horses of varying types living outside 24/7.
They have really good shelter in the banked devon hedges, holly trees and lots of dips and windbreaks plus two barns with haylage inside.
the only time I ever see them shiver is in high winds and heavy rain when they flatly refuse to stay inside the shelters, some primeval warning tells them to stand under hedges not inside a building it seems.
Some wear rugs, some don't and it all depends on the coat they grow and if they are thin skinned or not, plus their ages.
The foals all get rugged as although they grow thick coats, I feel happier seeing them dry regardless of the weather.
The old ones all have snug rugs too, as they need extra warmth as they age.
The others tend to be those I have had here a while and see how they cope either rugged or without. We have a TB who thrives unrugged, but sweats with even a thin one.
There are several heavy cob types who really don't need rugs as they never shiver even in bad weather.
I do actually try not to rug my two /three year olds as I want them to be tough, which sounds harsh but they grow decent coats and do understand where the shelter is when needed.
The funniest one is the 34 year old shetland, who never even gets wet, he just tucks himself under a wall or tree at the first sign of rain.
I abandoned rugging all of them after finding some got far too hot under them and the conditions here warm/damp were perfect for rainscald to form underneath.
The odd time I have seen anything shivering I go and get a few sacks of feed and put piles out for them all, that seems to give them the energy to stop shivering quickly.
The ones who aren't rugged have staring coats for a reason, the air is trapped between the hairs and it keeps them warm, so don't assume it's because they are cold!
I don't like seeing any of mine cold but having provided food and shelter, if they choose to shiver under a hedge (and that's something rare) it's up to them, it's not bad horsecare on my part.
I actually take issue with folk who keep horses shut up in stables for long hours, to me, that's worse than them getting cold occasionally, I think we all have to live and let live a bit and see there are more ways of doing things than one point of view...

 

[Tia]

Yes horses who are clipped have been disabled, therefore common sense suggests replacing like for like.

 

[AmyMay]

I have to see a horse cold and shivering - and the situation would be rectified as soon as possible if it were one of mine.

 

[Firewell]

I think if your horse has always been turned out with no rugs and it has a full winter coat its fine, it is a horse after all.

If its a horse thats used to wearing rugs or has been clipped then No I would think thats not OK at all.

My horse is a fine TB, she has always worn rugs and she is clipped. I would never leave her shivering, I would dry her with a towel and cover her in warm rugs.

My old pony was 19yr old ex broodmare off the Newforest when I got her. I never put a rug on her even if it was minus 5 and she lived out 24/7.
However if it had rained non stop and she was shivering badly I would bring her in just for the night with a deep straw bed and some hay just for a break from the weather.

 

[Tinypony]

I still can't see how any "disabled" horse needs 4 rugs. Modern HW rugs are designed to keep a clipped horse warm enough, but not too hot. I reckon any horse wearing that weight of rugs has got to be "toasty warm" rather than a healthy temperature. How come clipped out "competition" horses that were owned by experienced and knowledgeable people 30 years ago didn't need to be wrapped up like tea cosies?

 

[Donkeymad]

The problem these days is that all of us - horses and humans - are getting 'softer' and cannot cope as we used to.

 

[Scribbles]

My horse isn't clipped and doesn't get rugs, precisely because I DON'T want to clip him - by rugging him his winter coat has barely grown, and he doesn't get sweaty and yucky when he's exercised.

 

[amandaco2]

i wouldnt want to leave any of mine out shivering.if they are shivering, they are too cold.plus i wouldnt want them to lose weight.

i rug
i want to try to keep my hay bill down so i dont want to be wasting it by feeding it purely for warmth.they are much less hungry when they are warm.
also i do like to ride a nice clean horse and not wait for hours for a wet soggy muddy one to dry out.
so they also have a bib clip so they dont get over hot when being worked.and rugged to compensate for that loss.

im not anti-naked-
my ISH spent 2 years in a huge 7 acre hilly field as she was only being worked very lightly each day-she hardly ever had her LW rug on(about 10 days in total) but she was unclipped and they had hay to keep them warm.
she sprouted a coat a shetland would be proud of-in fact i took her back to the yard to ride her and one of my friends asked where i got my 'new' horse from as she was unrecegnisable!
she has since remembered this and every year turns from a sleek TB into a wooly mommoth!

fibre is horses natural central heating.

as long as they have plenty of fibre and a natural coat they can stand out in most weathers fine.
its when they are stood on a patch of mud not doing anything with no food, they get cold!

 

[Tinypony]

My very fat NF type pony shivers a little when it's really cold and wet, she's never been rugged in her life. Heaven forbid I should rug her and stop her losing weight. Horses are supposed to lose a bit of weight over winter, ready for the spring grass. But many of our horses are overweight anyway.
[ QUOTE ]
The problem these days is that all of us - horses and humans - are getting 'softer' and cannot cope as we used to.


[/ QUOTE ]
Really? Where is the evidence of that in the case of horses? Or - are we causing our horses to become "softer" by over-protecting them? Which would make sense when you see that so many horses that are kept in the old, more hardy ways, cope perfectly fine.