is my farrier right?

[StormyMoments]

my farrier came out the otherday to see my horses hooves to see if when he should book me in for shoeing as my horses feet just arnt growing, i explained to him that i had run out of the hoof ointment that he tells me to use, but i had started using Keretex, he told me not to use Keretex under any circumstances as it will make my horses hooves break down even more than they already are, as my horses feet are quite brittle, he told me that it breaks down cells and by the way he said it it sounded like his bl**dy hoof would just fall of and not grow back lol.

the next day i was reading in a magazine on how to keep brittle hooves in good condition and it said to use Keretex as it it good with strengthening hooves and helping them grow as well as letting them do their natural thing as there is no barrier like you would get with gel or oil based hoof ointment

so who should i believe, and has anyone had any bad results with Keretex?

cookies and cream for anyone who go this far

 

[Frumpoon]

Crumbs! I'm not sure about Keratex but in v dry weather I use aqueous cream and in normal/wet weather effol....does this help?

 

[jenki13]

When we first got my horse she started getting brittle hooves & my farrier told us to use keratex to strengthen them... seems a bit odd that your farrier has said not to as I always thought this is what it was for :/

 

[tallyho!]

Your farrier is on to something... I think he may have read the ingredients...

It's formaldehyde - you know? Preservative? What you use to pickle bodies with? That artist used it to pickle half a dead cow.

no wonder it works but must be sucking the life out your horses hoof.

I would use good ol' happy hoof for quality horn. Kevin bacon is a bit better but the main ingredient in that is boiled horse/animal skin & maybe some bones & seasoned with some herbs

 

[StormyMoments]

i currently use effol and he said that that is ok but would prefer cornucrescine but i ran out and i thought that it would be ok, i have never tried aqueous cream, he has also told me to try and get hold of kevin bacons hoof grease but i do find all this slapping on of hoof oil one on top another a bit pointless, i do it everyday but not 3 times daily, i would be better off putting him on farriers formular, its not as if i would need to get the farrier out anymore often due to him insisting (he can be pushy and im too much of a whimp to say no) on every 4-5 weeks which i think is ridiculous if my horses feet arnt growing as he is only getting nails a few mm above the last and then it cracks and breaks his hoof up so isnt he just trying to sort his own problem out with hoof oil? and my horse used to go 8-10weeks because hes feet didnt grow and they were fine no cracks at all now im getting shouted at for doing too much road work because his feet are bad... i cant win!

 

[Bryndu]

My vet says the best thing for horses hooves is water!!!!!

Bryndu

 

[Frumpoon]

Find a new farrier?
I don't pay anyone to bully me, I'm not Max Mosley etc, you shouldn't either xx

 

[StormyMoments]

haha tallyho! hmmm he did say something about formaldehyde but he yabbers so much he goes off subject,, saying that look at my last message lol, but i will try and get hold of some happy hoof, maybe that would do the trick, i thought it was for horses with lami if im honest, but if it helps with hoof growth that'll do

 

[MotherOfChickens]

my old farrier was involved in the clinical trials for keratex and wouldnt use it. it apparently produces lots of minute cracks and longterm could cause more damage.

personally I am not keen on the traditional oil based hoof oils-try aqueous cream (it's really cheap in Boots), Kevin Bacons or have a look at the diet for longterm improvement.

 

[StormyMoments]

i am tempted to, but hes the only one i have found that is interested in getting my horses heels to grow properly, i have had a spate of bad farriers (mentioning no names) which have really set my horses feet growing the wrong way, and he does seem to be trying his best to sort them and he explains everything which is nice but he does seem to bully me into him going short amounts of time which reallt p**ses me off as its not his horse and not his money!

 

[ISHmad]

The healthiest feet are those which are healthy inside through nutrition, correct diet and the like. So a balancer or biotin would help. If you do need to put anything on the feet our trimmer tells us to make sure it is applied when the feet are already damp from dew so that you are not locking moisture out of the foot.

 

[tallyho!]

haha tallyho! hmmm he did say something about formaldehyde but he yabbers so much he goes off subject,, saying that look at my last message lol, but i will try and get hold of some happy hoof, maybe that would do the trick, i thought it was for horses with lami if im honest, but if it helps with hoof growth that'll do

Well, it'll be cheaper too. I wonder if your horse needs a bit more calcium in his diet. Calcium is essential for good hair and nails, I mean hooves (for humans too ) Do you feed speedibeet? A handful of that soaked will give calcium a boost. You don't have to use happy hoof but I think it's brill for all horses - all 8 horses at the yard are on it. Only mine is a laminitic. Alfa-a lite is rich in hoof growing vitamins too.

 

[JessandCharlie]

I'm trying some Kevin Bacon's next, I've heard the same about keratex and my farrier said he doesn't like cornucrescine so much as if doesn't really soak in unless you really massage it into the coronet band, in which case it may just be the massaging promoting growth

Bryndu, somebody said on here once (and it made sense to me) that water's good when the ground's soggy, because the moisture is kept in by the surrounding moisture, but if it's hot and dry, putting water on their feet will work for a little bit, but as the water evaporates off, it will draw out more moisture than was there in the first place. I thought it was quite and interesting way of looking at it! Certainly never occurred to me

J&C

 

[sonjafoers]

I don't understand why you would want to change him - have I missed something here?

If your horse has underrun heels or similar (which it sounds like as you say he is the only one who wants to get the heels to grow properly) then you would need frequent visits from him until the foot balance is better.

I've had 2 farriers who have also told me to stay away from Keratex products so he could possibly be right!

 

[StormyMoments]

thanks for all the advice! my horse is on pasture mix, molassed chaff and codlavene, during the winder he is on speedibeat, but he comes off it in the summer as he doesnt really need it due to the grass being about 10cm long and having grazed by cows it is really rich but he hasnt put on much weight at all since the winter he always comes out of the winter looking ribby, even with adlib haylage and a scoop of mix, scoop of chaff and a scoop of speedibeat twice a day :/ bleeding irish sports horse too complicated

 

[JessandCharlie]

Oh yes, I also bought some pig oil and sulphur the other day, and it came with a leaflet with instructions, and it said you could add a dash of iodine and use it as a hoof oil

Any thoughts?

J&C

 

[StormyMoments]

i was told to change because my farrier doesnt give me a choice, and im too much of a whimp to stand up to him, but yes he has under run heels which he has been working of for 8 sessions now but im not see much change but heyho

 

[JanetGeorge]

My vet says the best thing for horses hooves is water!!!!!

Bryndu

He's not wrong! In very dry weather I over-fill my troughs to create a nice muddy puddle around them - has improved feet enormously. For stabled horses, I hose the feet and then coat them with Kevin Bacon's - that did wonders for my old ID who had VERY brittle feet and was losing shoes every week!

 

[Frumpoon]

i was told to change because my farrier doesnt give me a choice, and im too much of a whimp to stand up to him, but yes he has under run heels which he has been working of for 8 sessions now but im not see much change but heyho

Oh hang on no, I didn't suggest that...it just sounds like he's a bully and I don't think anybody should have to put up with that. He could explain why he wants you to use or not use certain things?

I got the impression he didn't listen to you much...?

I could be wrong on all counts....

 

[sonjafoers]

i was told to change because my farrier doesnt give me a choice, and im too much of a whimp to stand up to him, but yes he has under run heels which he has been working of for 8 sessions now but im not see much change but heyho

What doesn't he give you a choice in? if it's products to use then ask him to explain why he recommends them - he is a professional & probably has a good idea of what works & what doesn't.

If you're referring to the frequent visits then in my experience he is right. One of my horses had underrun heels caused by previous incorrect shoeing whereby her toe was left too long which made her heels weak and underrun. I have always had her shod 6weekly but in order to rectify this both my vet & farrier thought it should be done more often than that. I went to 5 weekly but my vet wanted me to get her done 4 weekly. It has taken over a year to get her feet right with frequent visits and support from gel - her feet now look great so it has been worth it. In fact I saw my old farrier the other day & he asked me who was shoeing her now because her feet look 'perfect'. He also admitted he would never have got them as good as they are.

 

[StormyMoments]

hes not really interested in listening to my point of view, he just wants to shoe my horse and go as hes obviously so so busy which is understandable and i have to catch him while he has a spare minute and its very rushed and not that helpful and he doesnt really give me a choice he just tells me he is doing something, doesnt ask if i want it done, like the otherday he put thicker heavier shoes on so i can do more road work, he didnt ask me just did it and told me afterwards and it cost me more, which i thought was a bit naughty if im honest if he had said before he did it i would have said yes but what if i didnt have that extra money to give? see what i mean?

 

[Miss L Toe]

You need to get in to a routine , no use running out, swapping and changing.
Without seeing the horse, I would suggest that he needs regular exercise to stimulate growth and strengthen hoof.
Diet, well I like alpha oil as a chaff and maybe calm and condition to build up topline. Dependant on the field he might need extra vitamins and minerals,, ideally he should be grazing on herbs and short grass, not the sort of mono species ryegrass sown by farmers for cattle.
Re moisture, I am of the opinion that the hooves should be kept stable, not wet one minute and dry the next. In nature horses would not be crowded round a hard rough area to get a drink, this may be the reason that hooves are breaking up, and improve when a muddy area is created. I don't mind a bit of mud, but if kept in a bog (as mine has been for 6 weeks) the feet will deteriorate and become sensitive if left unshod.
My horse is normally booked in every sixth week, for new shoes, and even though he normally has super feet, the growth rate will vary, to ask a horse to have new shoes every four weeks is difficult, impossible in many cases.
Re supplements, well it takes 4 to 6 months to grow from the coronet band, so no quick fix there. I think I would make sure he is getting the right balanced feed first and add a feed supplement if you are sure it will work, as I say I think you need to find a simple system and stick to it. if you are riding him every day, it can't be that hard to brush on hoof oil, Kevin Bacon seems to be most favoured, I have to say I have rarely used oil except for "show" but I always feed a good diet, and my horses are always bursting with health, I don't let them stand in dirty bedding and never wash the legs when they come in from the field.

 

[Miss L Toe]

My vet says the best thing for horses hooves is water!!!!!

Bryndu

Water is for drinking not for washing hooves, unless sea water

 

[Frumpoon]

hes not really interested in listening to my point of view, he just wants to shoe my horse and go as hes obviously so so busy which is understandable and i have to catch him while he has a spare minute and its very rushed and not that helpful and he doesnt really give me a choice he just tells me he is doing something, doesnt ask if i want it done, like the otherday he put thicker heavier shoes on so i can do more road work, he didnt ask me just did it and told me afterwards and it cost me more, which i thought was a bit naughty if im honest if he had said before he did it i would have said yes but what if i didnt have that extra money to give? see what i mean?

hmmmm see no way...my man is lovely, he talks me through any new thing he's doing, he talks to my vet on the phone when required and he's happy to talk about any alternative idea e.g. aluminium vs steel egg bars

This is what their training entails, they go through 5 year apprenticeships to learn this stuff and they are in a position of trust as a result

 

[Katd66]

Another one to vote for Kevin Bacon - makes such a difference within a matter of days!

Also dried seaweed and biotin is brilliant for hoof growth and much cheaper than all the other supplements.

 

[fizzer]

Kevin Bacons is fab as it keeps the hoof at a constant consistency of moisture.

 

[StormyMoments]

he is exercised 6-7 days a week but t is completely dependant on what im doing the next day, like this week he is only working 5 days as he has a day off before competing but most of the time he is schooled from 3/4 of an hour to an hour an twice a week hacking far a change of scenery he is turned out 24/7, the only hoof which can be a problem is where he cut the bulb of his heel off on barbed wire and de-nerved it so it doesnt grow as well as the rest of his foot but other then that he is on codlavine as a supplement ... but yes i do wish he would tell me what he was doing hes a good farrier but bad for being social :/ hmm

 

[fitzaud2]

my old farrier was involved in the clinical trials for keratex and wouldnt use it. it apparently produces lots of minute cracks and longterm could cause more damage.

personally I am not keen on the traditional oil based hoof oils-try aqueous cream (it's really cheap in Boots), Kevin Bacons or have a look at the diet for longterm improvement.

hi peteralfred,
Could you go into more detail diet wise, if you dont mind, am very interested in what you should be feeding for their hooves. My sister has a horse that is an absolute nightmare with his hooves, she spends so much on trying to get his feet right, her farrier is her best friend at this stage as it's a weekly visit to put back on a shoe. I'd love to be avle to go back to her with solid info on feeding totry andsave her some money on all these supplements she's buying!!!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

FWIW, my farrier also negates the use of Keratex, and is happy to recco Kevin Bacon's hoof care.
Like Janet George, I also allow puddle patches by the tanks for mine (1 lot of rain in 6+ weeks is not on, are you listening upstairs??) and even the biggest Fuzzy enjoys stamping in them. Biggest one is also on better grazing overnight & gets the benefit of overnight dew too.
Feet are all looking fine here, tho those next door on exactly the same type of grazing & regime as mine (with exception of puddle splash & Kevin Bacon) are all moaning about the state of their fuzzys feet.

 

[dumpling]

Wouldn't use Keratex. Absolutely stinks, and seems to be full of chemicals. If you're wanting to use anything on his hooves, I'd recommend Effol or Kevin Bacon. However if his hooves are prone to crumbling I'd recommend a feed supplement such as Farriers Formula or Blue Chip.